I recently read — How Puppy Class Almost Ruined My Dad’s New Cattle Dog — written by a veterinarian, who blames Puppy Class (and her Dad) for almost ruining her Dad’s puppy, Lucy. I am worried that the sensational and provocative title along with the tabloid style, (replete with “videotaped evidence”, watching “in horror” and the predictable cliff-hanger ending, “To find out what happened, stay tuned for upcoming blogs”), might lead unsuspecting puppy owners to believe that puppy classes are bad news. Consequently, I have decided to reply at length, so that owners realize why they should never let their puppy miss the opportunity of attending classes.
I guess my take on this story is very different. First, I find nothing particularly unusual in terms of Lucy’s behavioral development, all quite normal and expected — calm and compliant as a young puppy until predictable problems began to emerge in later puppyhood. Second, I think that Lucy enrolled in a well-structured puppy class, which she and her owners were obviously enjoying and which was revealing a couple of anticipated, early-adolescent problems that no doubt would have been summarily resolved … had Lucy not been pulled out of class. Third, teaching a two-month old puppy is pretty easy but teaching owners how to maintain the dog’s behavior while she navigates adolescence presents a much more daunting challenge. Welcome to the world of pet dog training!
Obviously, I think that all puppy classes are wonderful. Just being there is beneficial for the pups in terms of socialization, classical conditioning and wealth of experience. However, the effectiveness of instruction varies greatly from trainer to trainer and depends very much on class structure. To maximize benefits, I feel that puppy classes should be taught off-leash for 55 minutes of the hour, (except when teaching leash-walking of course). Teaching puppy classes (compared to adult dog classes) offers the luxury of letting all the puppies off-leash without fear of injury. We should never waste this opportunity — we will never have it again. The younger the puppy, the easier she is to train and modify and mold her behavior and temperament to our liking. Bite inhibition, socialization, temperament “forensics” and temperament training must all be accomplished during puppyhood, whereas basic manners may be taught at any age. However, it’s easier and more fun to train puppies and so, manners are best taught during puppyhood as well.
The two most important goals of puppy class are to enable the puppy 1. To enhance bite inhibition and 2. To socialize with numerous people. Additional goals include, 3. Encouraging puppies to catch up on dog-dog socialization, 4. Diagnosing and immediately resolving incipient and likely problems, 5. Teaching owners how to control and calm off-leash puppies when they are revved-up and especially, 6. That owners and puppies have a great time.
These six vital goals can only be accomplished if puppies are taught off-leash. Puppies can only develop bite inhibition, socialize with people and play with other puppies if they are off-leash. Also, owners cannot learn to control and calm excited pups off-leash, if the puppies are kept on-leash and their behavior is inhibited at all times. Owners live at home with their puppies off-leash and they have come to class to learn how to control them when excited. Thus, in class, numerous, extremely short training interludes need to be integrated into an ongoing, wild and woolly play session, so that “resuming play” may be effectively used a reward for calming and remaining calm. Keeping on-leash puppies calm for extended periods in class masks the real issues: How quickly and effectively can owners calm excited puppies? How quickly can they regain attention and control? Once the owners have mastered prompt and reliable verbal control, and training aids (e.g., food and toy lures and rewards) are no longer necessary for compliance, (which usually takes 1-4 weeks), then they may concentrate on increasing the length of calm, attentive, training time-outs interspersed during playtime.
From the blog, it would appear that Lucy thoroughly enjoyed playing with other dogs and socializing with people and so was well on the road to acquiring reliable bite inhibition and safe jaws. Lucy’s owners also seemed to be having a thoroughly good time in class; “… my parents looked so happy … they were just enjoying their new puppy…” However, she was starting to “blow off her owners” as she began to explore her own doggy interests. Hence the need for “play” and “sniffing” to be the most-used rewards when teaching attention and manners because when she grows up, Lucy won’t live in a protective bubble.
Additionally, off-leash play enables effective behavior and temperament forensics. Off-leash play very rarely creates problems. Play does not make dogs inattentive, fearful, or turn them into bullies, rather off-leash play quickly identifies: 1. Puppies that are already inattentive, fearful, or play too hard and 2. Puppies that are likely to become inattentive, fearful and play too hard as they approach adolescence. Basically, off-leash puppy play enables the instructor (and owners) to view behavior and temperament under a powerful microscope, and, through a crystal ball — to identify incipient problems and to predict future likely problems. For example, most biting dogs may be identified during Week1 play. It is essential to identify incipient or likely problems early on so that owners may be made aware of the problems and immediately embark on their prevention and resolution at a time when prevention and resolution are most effective, i.e., during puppyhood.
I have a lot of respect for Dr. Yin and have enjoyed her writings in the past. However, for her to state that two sessions of puppy class almost ruined her Dad’s 12-week-old puppy is a bit presumptuous, barely supported by the facts and most probably, entirely incorrect. Throughout the blog, Dr Yin repeatedly places as much, if not more, blame on her father’s failure to follow her precise and exceedingly comprehensive, expert instruction as she does on puppy-class damage. Additionally, as a scientist, Dr. Yin must be aware that Correlation does not necessarily equal Causation.
So what else could have transpired here? Do we have a more parsimonious (i.e., more likely) explanation? Well yes, of course we do. The perfect puppy simply grew up. She started to develop predictable and preventable, yet nonetheless essential, adolescent doggy interests (commonly known by some as behavior “problems”). The puppy’s early perfection is no more an advertisement of Dr. Yin’s prowess as a trainer than the developing adolescent’s problems are an indictment of her father’s failure as an owner. Lucy just grew up. And as she grew older, she was much more difficult to train. Dr. Yin had the easy job but her father was faced with an infinitely more difficult task. Of course young puppies are perfect and sit automatically with unwavering attention, the question is: Do they still pay attention and sit reliably after they have collided with adolescence? This is why we have puppy classes — to help owners learn how to deal with these predictable, yet surmountable, “problems”.
Of course puppy Lucy was perfect. She was only eight weeks old AND she was living with a dog expert. That is, until Dr. Yin gave the perfect puppy as a Father’s Day gift to her parents, who presumably are not doggy experts. And then we wonder why the puppy developed “problems”. The puppy-to-adolescent transition happens all too quickly for all breeds but the Australian Cattle Dog is the fastest developing breed on the planet and so, we can expect adolescent problems to start to develop much earlier in puppyhood. Maybe a more suitable parental gift, that is if puppies should ever be gifted at all, would have been a slower-developing and less turbo-charged breed such as a Cavalier King Charles, a Rottie, a Newfie, a Papillon, or an English Bulldog?
I always tell newly qualified veterinarians and dog trainers to never underestimate their own expertise. What may be so easy for you — given your experience and expertise — can be so difficult for others. You must remember that few dog owners are professional dog trainers. Owners are not necessarily irresponsible or incompetent, they simply find dog training difficult.
We have many different cognitive domains and we may be brilliant in some but less than brilliant in others. Entering into an unfamiliar cognitive domain can cause otherwise extremely intelligent people to lose all commonsense, as if their brain fuses. “What little sense I once possessed has gone quite out of my head.” The most common brain-jamming cognitive domains are: technology, (especially, computers and cars), and social situations, (especially, teaching one’s own children, or parents, and training dogs). Much to Kelly and Jamie’s chagrin, my Achilles’ heel is computers. For dog owners, it’s dog training. And for dog trainers, it’s teaching dog training to others. Training dogs and teaching people how to train dogs are two entirely different skills.
Merely telling people what to do is not sufficient, regardless of multi-paged manuals and no matter the number of photographs. I am not being facetious here. I truly appreciate all the effort that Dr. Yin has put into compiling her extremely comprehensive puppy-raising and handling manuals but these are of little use if no one reads them, or if they fail to put the advice to practice. Pet dog training is not about “telling people what to do”, or “doing it for them” and then expecting them to carry on in much more difficult circumstances. Pet dog training is all about motivating dog owners to read instruction manuals, watch instructional videos and try their best to train their dog and then, helping them overcome each and every difficulty along the way. We know this at Dog Star Daily. Providing the information is easy but promoting the site and encouraging prospective and new puppy owners to read the information is an entirely different prospect.
Of course the puppy developed adolescent problems. Wow! So what else is new? Lucy jumps up and likes to play with other dogs. Thank goodness, she’s a normal friendly and socialized puppy with normal puppy interests. Now, all she needs to learn is how to greet people. Yes, we have to re-teach to sit again, because now she is an adolescent and it is a whole new ball game. And yes, we have to re-teach her to pay attention because when she was a puppy, you were her Sun, Moon and Stars, but now she has developed interests of her own — healthy interests, like having fun with other dogs. This is not a capital offence. This is no big deal. All we have to do is integrate training into play so that play becomes the reward for sitting and paying attention. But most important, we have to teach Lucy to enjoy being handled. As a puppy, there was no need to teach her because she simply enjoyed it. But now she is older, she is not enjoying it. And so, we have to teach her to enjoy it.
Raising a puppy, or a child for that matter, is all about preventing predictable problems and identifying incipient problems as early as possible in order to resolve them as soon as possible. It is indeed a rare puppy or child that grows up being perfect. I would be the first to admit that maintaining puppy manners, behavior and temperament through adolescence is far from an easy task but it is possible, IF at least you try.
Ultimately, puppy owners will choose the type of class that they think is best for their puppy. And so, please choose wisely. Your choice will have a long-lasting and indelible effect on your puppy’s manners, behavior and temperament and consequential quality of life as an adult dog. It would seem the choice comes down to an on-leash class with limited play and no off-leash training, or an off-leash class with lots of play and lots of off-leash training. All I can say is, next year, my own puppy school will celebrate the 100,000th puppy in class and there are more than a few puppy owners who are grateful for their adult dog’s bite inhibition, social savvy and reliable off-leash manners.
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Working with family
I think that you're spot on with this one, Ian, especially the part about training being so much more than providing information. I laughed out loud when I read Dr. Yin expressing her frustration that her father didn't even seem to have looked at the pictures in the manual she put together. I have so been there (although with less effort expended). I generally try to refer friends and family who are not experienced dog people to someone else for training advice. It's easier for everyone that way.
1. From reading Dr. Yin's
1. From reading Dr. Yin's blog she tried to talk her father out of an Australian Cattle Dog puppy. It is interesting that you said that ACDs are the fastest maturing dogs since I am seeing a very very long adolescence in my own cattle dog. To me, the weirdest thing about the breed is the huge differences from dog to dog: one in ten is tremendously friendly (I gave that one away); one is terribly agressive and the other eight run the gamut between those two extremes with mine being extremely fearful. I have just put that down to the fact that it is a relatively new breed but if you have a better explanation I would love to hear it.
2. Can you explain what you mean by temperament training? I thought that if a behavior was rooted in a temperament issue it could be slightly molded through training, CC, DS and possibly medication but that temperament was temperament was temperament period which is why I never bred the best dog I ever owned since it took 4 years of exensive work for her to be "normal."
3. There are a LOT of really really badly run puppy classes in the world (think middle america) and I have seen dogs who have definitely been negatively impacted from them. I don't think that Dr. Yin's parents' class was one of those classes but those classes DO exist. You still believe that people are better off taking their puppy to one of those classes than no class? And by people, I mean individuals who just have a puppy they want to be a nice pet. Again, my own undersanding on socialization is that just exposing the dog to things doesn't cut it, the dog needs to have a good experience with those things in order for it to be meaningful.
Thank you Dr. Dunbar
Yes, I twitched a little at a recent Dr. Yin seminar when this came up.
Many trainers seem to get thrown off -- or even personally vexxed -- when a dog is just being a dog and not a clicker-programmed computer printout. Group dog dynamics provide, as Dr. Dunbar says, a microscope on each dog's true personality and ongoing development. They therefore can be used to better zero in on the most effective training methods for a particular dog.
Further, the socialization inherent in group play/training improves each dog's overall behavioral development and trainability -- unless of course, "dogness" is a problem for the trainer. After years of hearing this angle from many different sources, I want to thank you for this commentary, Dr. Dunbar.
Suzanne Lefcourt Harris, BSc, CPDT http://www.dogdaysUSA.com
Dr Yin's comments
Dr Dunbar, if only your text was published in french (and the rest of Dog Star Daily as well!!!!!)!! I could send it to all of my friends who have dogs (even those who don't) or to anyone who knows a dog owner!
I am a volunteer dog trainer in a dog school and I only work in puppy classes because it's the only place where I can use and teach positive and friendly dog training (adult dogs are trained with coercitive methods... no comment). Our puppy classes occur once a week (on sunday) and are divided into 2 groups (for one hour training): 2 to 4 months old puppies and 4 to 6 months old puppies which represents about 27 puppies and, at least, 27 dog owners who come to seek for help and advice.
I have read Dr Yin's text and I admit I don't understand what the problem is with puppy classes. Well, yes, everything is not perfect (can anything or anyone be perfect on this earth?) and not all the puppy classes are equal. However, I think that taking away a puppy from puppy classes is not the best solution (except for people who have sufficient knowledge to raise a dog in the most reliable way). You can keep your puppy for yourself and not exposing her to the rest of the world hoping nothing harmful is going to happen to her but is it the fairest way to respect the needs of your puppy / dog? Of course bad things can happen even in puppy classes and specially to shy and fearful puppies. And, of course they can be impacted but if the puppy can't get back to normal, it might only prove that this puppy has behavioral difficulties and that a specific training should be suggested to the owner. Puppy classes are like indicators of what's going right and what's going wrong. So one of the main reasons to enroll in a puppy class is to make sure that your puppy is developing "normally" and acquiring appropriate behaviors. Puppy schools are good places and a great opportunity to:
- realize what is the real temperament of your puppy
- admit that your puppy has changed since you adopted her
- realize that there's still a lot to do to have a friendly and esay-handling dog
- realize that there can be a real gap between your puppy's behavior and the rest of the puppies around you (who can look happier, relaxed when approached and handled, less shy when playtime comes, etc...). And yes, you don't know your sweet tiny furry puppy so well!
I am in charge of the 4 to 6 months old puppies group and yes, there's a genuine difference between these puppies (in terms of play, handling, concentration and excitement) and younger ones but it doesn't mean that they all have behavioral problems or that their former reactions and abilities (2 months earlier) have deteriorated. It just means that:
- puppies became more self-confident in their environnement,
- they developed new doggy interests,
- they perfectly know their owners (because they've perfectly trained them),
- owners should train their puppies more regularly.
So that's good news to know about it!! Thus you can correct any behavior you find inappropriate or that prevents your puppy from having a fulfilling social life.
I really appreciate Dr Yin's work (specially the part concerning dominance theories) and her website which is so interactive but I think that her article could be really noxious to dog training (specially positive and friendly dog training) because it could be misinterpreted. Maybe Dr Yin feels frustrated because, as a professionnal dog trainer/ veterinarian / behavior consultant and thanks to her experience, she certainly could do better with Lucy than her parents or than the puppy class instructor she talked about. I only hope that Dr Yin is not really thinking what she wrote the way we read it and perceive it.
Positive and friendly dog training should be promoted more widely. That's why we should all stick together regardless of our personnal experiences and the methods we use as long as they are humane to dogs and their owners. Five years ago, and even if I am not a professionnal dog trainer (not yet), I decided to chose positive and friendly dog training because I realized it was the fairest way for me to train my dog and to show her how much I cared for her. I think it is also the only way I want to get in contact with other dogs. And I hope I will be able to communicate this wish to anyone coming up to me to seek for help and advice.
Dr Dunbar, I am very glad to have met you somewhere on my way in the dog world...
Ludmilla
FRANCE, Alsace
Puppy Classes Aren't All Equal
I read Dr Yin's article and came to a different conclusion. I don't think that a puppy necesarily benefits just from being at a class. If so, then any one could teach a class-no skill required on the instructors part. Or people could just let their puppies run at a dog park (at least after their vaccines are done) with no worry of the puppy learning anything bad. I think puppies only benefit from puppy class if 1) they are having a positive experience by being surrounded by other people and dogs and 2) they are learning the behaviors properly so as to help them through adolesence and adulthood. However, what about a fearful puppy who cowers when 5 other puppies tackle it or becomes frantic when a stranger grabs his collar? This puppy is not having a positive experience. The same goes for the overly aroused puppy who is dive bombing the other puppies and snarling at people who attempt to restrain them, as Dr Yin describes Lucy's behavior. Lucy wasn't learning that when someone grabs her collar, she should sit and focus on them. Instead, she was learning that they were only stopping her from having fun and she was beginning to resent it. You say this behavior would have been corrected had Lucy continued to attend the puppy class, but according to Dr Yin, the instructor didn't even seem to recognize Lucy's behavior as a problem.
Puppies should be able to pay attention with low distractions and maybe with just two or three puppies loose at a time before expecting them to do it off leash and surrounded by several other rowdy puppies. This is likened to expecting a 4 year old child to write a novel without first teaching them the alphabet. When 12-15 puppies are running around among at least as many people, it will naturally turn into chaos. One instructor could not possibly assure that each puppy is playing appropriately and that each owner is doing the exercises properly. To me, this is a disservice to each paying client. However, most puppies would not be harmed in the long run from this kind of class. Most puppies would be fine in this kind of class, but it is important that the instructor has the knowledge and experience to recognize those "socially challeged" dogs who require extra assistance. Otherwise, that scared puppy is just going to become more fearful and the overly aroused puppy isn't going to improve her social skills. Both of these puppies are now more likely to become aggressive.
All puppy classes are not equal
Thanks for taking the time to write this, Ian. Please feel free to also post a response on my blog too since your comments pertain to my blog. So far the response I've gotten from people who've read my blogs on Lucy and puppy class (http://askdryin.com/blog/2009/11/22/how-puppy-class-nearly-ruined-my-dad...) felt that the message they got was that they should be careful in how they run a puppy class.That they have to keep the outliers in mind... the ones that can become highly aroused and start to become aggressive (Lucy had never growled when people were grabbing her collar or handling her feet in the past and had been counterconditioned to these things prior) or the ones that are fearful and can become overwhelmed.
One point is that even if much of Lucy's behavior were attributable to her age (and breed), clearly this class was not a good fit for her. It may have been a perfect class for other pups but not for her. And that was the point I was trying to make. That, and the fact that so much can change in just 2 weeks in this age of pup. If someone had gotten her at 10 weeks of age they would have assumed she was genetically aggressive and inattentive. In the next blogs I will be covering how quickly the reversal can occur.
It's also true that my parents were not perfect owners, but they were probably better than 80%. They walked her twice a day for long walks and socialized her to many people and some dogs on walks. They weren't able to socialize her to as many dogs as I had the first week or in as positive a manner as I had (http://askdryin.com/blog/2009/09/14/my-dad-meets-lucy-his-fathers-day-gi...). But they did a pretty decent job compared to many owners.
They had her tethered to them much of the time during that 2 weeks too for potty training and learn to earn training. and were having her earn all of her food throughout the day doing the learn to earn exercises. They just couldn't get the nuances because 1) maybe they didn't read the directions--just like a real client 2) hey, my dad is 80 and my mom is a senior citizen too so they are not fantastic on the hand-eye coordination. But compared to the average puppy class owners they were ok. So, I wasn't as frustrated with them as many people would be of their relatives and as other people might be.
In fact I was probably less frustrated with them than I am with a lot of clients who truly don't comply. If my parents had had a lab or golden retriever or standard poodle, they would not have had the issues they were having with Lucy. In fact, if everyone put in the effort that my parents put in during the first month, they would have fantastic pups at 10 weeks of age. Lucy was not a good match for them in her behavioral state during 8-10 weeks of age, but I believe that if I had had her for 1-2 more weeks so that her behaviors could have been more of a habit OR had been able to be with my parents for maybe 5 days in a row when they first got her, my parents would not have noticed any major issues. As it turns out I worked with her on an off for another month and then her good behavior stuck a lot better. So at 15 weeks, they then had a really nice, calmer pup. But the main thing is that it would have been nice if the puppy class instructor had recognized all the difficulties my parents were having and adjust accordingly.
I am glad that you brought up the point that some people might read article the article and think they should take a puppy to puppy class. In fact, I welcome people to comment on my blog. That's what blogs are for. It's just lucky that I came across your blog, Ian or how would I have known that at least a some people were worried about how other people might perceive the article. Of course as
-an executive board member of the AVSAB (a group that just put out a puppy socialization position statement last year and that published a round table discussion promoting puppy socialization),
-a writer for Veterinary Forum who featured an article on early socialization and puppy class
-author of Low Stress Handling, Restraint and Behavior Modification in Dogs and Cats (which has an entire chapter on puppy socailization and and entire chapter on kitten socialization, as well as a chapter on fear and the importance of early socialization)
-author of how to behave so your dog behaves... which also has a chapter on fear and the importance of puppy class and early socialization
- puppy clalss instructor myself (and witha puppy socialization page on my web site) and information on puppy socialization in the previous blogs on Lucy.
I would be disappointed if I found that this article made people think they should not socialize their puppies. As a result, my next blog on Lucy will be something on the lines of Lucy Finds a Puppy Class That's Just Right for Her, since I did take her to a puppy class after that was more geared to her needs. I may also add an addendum to the Lucy article about puppy classes being a good idea but that owners need to get their pup in one that's right for them.
Thanks again for your input. And please if you have concerns or issues with something I write, I would appreciate your posting something on my blog or emailing me directly too. As positive reinforcement trainers I think it's our job to communicate with eachother directly in a clear manner.
I think it's also important to have healthy debates about training. If we all think the same then we will never learn anything new.
Sophia Yin
Sophia
Little Lucy and her puppy class experience
Nancy Abplanalp planalp@omsoft.com http://www.thinkingdogs.net
I had the pleasure of meeting Lucy when she was eight weeks old. Dr. Yin did her usual wonderful job of socializing and training her and worked hard on helping Lucy curb her exuberance.
This was tough - Lucy is an outgoing, very forward puppy and barreled right into and up onto other dogs and people. Dr. Yin's training style uses a great deal of management, designed to help a dog "get it right." The Sirius puppy classes described above seem to have a different design and a different primary purpose (bite inhibition and socialization). I have never observed a Sirius puppy class and don't teach with that style, but I'm sure that a well run class is a pleasure for every participant.
I can speak to the success of Dr. Yin training and socialization programs. Dr. Yin often uses my training classes as distractions for the dogs that she's working with. She uses the science of learning theory and her keen observation skills to set up and create teachable moments. I love watching her train.
Different training styles don't mean that someone is wrong, especially when both styles are punishment free and user friendly. I am delighted that we have Sirius puppy classes and Dr. Yin's myriad of resources (classes, private consults, board and train, lecturing, and website).
We still have far too many puppies missing out on the puppy socialization experience, but we'll get there by continuing our collaboration and outreach to veterinarians.
Nancy Abplanalp
Dr. Yin's response
I'm so glad to see Dr. Yin's response. I think it is so important, as she said, to give someone a head's up when there is a concern about interpretation about an article. This article and the accompanying commentary from Yin told the full story and I could appreciate the dynamics of the situation with Lucy.