In 2010 Premier Pet Products merged with Radio Systems Corporation. The main concern for many people in the humane non-pain dog training community was that RSC is the main supplier of shock collars in the US and that Premier would in some way now sell and endorse shock collars.
Janet Velenovsky was the head of Premier’s training and behavior division for 7 years. She resigned from Premier in September of 2011.
This interview was conducted via email and was not edited or embellished in any way by me. What you read is what was asked and answered.
Q 1 – At the outset of the merger between Premier and RSC the president of Premier Sharon Madere was very optimistic about the merger, as were many others in the pet dog training community, yet there was an equal if not greater part of the pet dog training community that was to say the least not happy and very skeptical. From your viewpoint what went wrong for you?
When I first heard the news two years ago, about a month earlier than most people, I literally cried for two weeks. I couldn’t attend company meetings or function very well at all. I knew intuitively this would end badly. I wanted to quit immediately.
Like most people, I needed to consider my financial situation. I also didn’t want to leave behind years and years of work and effort, nor the many strong relationships I had developed with people like Dr. RK Anderson and many other leaders in the industry. (Premier had an amazing relationship with the majority of veterinary behaviorists, veterinary and vet tech organizations, movers and shakers and organizations in the training industry, and lots of shelter people. RSC does not have those kinds of relationships, though they covet them.)
Not being in control of the situation at all, I decided to confer with as many of my mentors and advisors as possible, and to think carefully about all the options open to me and the ramifications of each choice. After a lot of discussion about potential collaborations with electrical engineers, a company with deep pockets for development, inventors with high-tech ideas, and using the knowledge of Premier’s friends and advisors in the training community, plus encouragement from others involved with Premier, I agree to stay with Premier for the time being. I set a goal to help bring education which could affect change to people who didn’t know a lot about dog and cat behavior.
Premier staff have been stalwart in trying to make the best of the situation. Despite assurances that Premier would remain its own company, not selling or promoting shock, and continue to service our customers as we had, Radio Systems doled out a continuous succession of small changes to processes, products, inventory, etc. It only took about 6 or 7 months to realize Radio Systems management did not intend to respect the Premier brand or mission in the way we’d hoped. For each of us, things we had previously had management of began to be taken away or realigned. In my department, Training & Behavior Education, we saw a steady decline in interest from the headquarters in Knoxville regarding our opinions and concerns.
The tipping point for me was an “ideation summit” held at a site halfway between Richmond and Knoxville. Associates from RSC and employees of Premier met to talk about trends in pet ownership and training, and to brainstorm new product ideas. Premier employees were paired with RSC associates on teams; each team was encouraged to come up with one new product idea and “pitch it” – in the style of the show, Shark Tank – to a panel of judges which included the COO of RSC. Despite several ideas involving enrichment, networking for educational purposes, or remote supervision and feedback for dogs suffering with separation distress, what did the judges choose to reward as the “winner”? You guessed it, a new way to use shock to limit a dog’s range of movement.
So, it was not any one thing that went wrong, it was many, many things. All of this reminded me of the fable of two frogs. One gets dumped into a pot of boiling water and jumps right out. The other is put in a cool pot, and the heat is turned on slowly. He doesn’t jump out right away because the changes are gradual. But, one day as he’s being cooked, he realizes the water has gotten very, very hot.
Q 2- Premier stated in its letter to the public about the merger with RSC that that they would retain their name and branding yet now we see they are changing their name. When and how did this get decided?
The Premier name is quite branded in the dog training community 20 plus years in fact. It was stated at the time of the merger that RSC “believe very strongly in the value of Premier – our products, our brand, and our reputation in the industry. RSC has made a strategic decision to focus on developing positive-based training products (hoping to launch a couple next year), and therefore a partnership with Premier makes a lot of sense for them”
After the pain of that summit in late 2010, I knew I had to make a change. I reduced my hours at Premier to 20 per week, took a role as advisor to my department, and began concentrating on my own training & behavior business. Mid-2011, I heard that customer, veterinary, and trainer surveys were being conducted by the parent company to gauge the value of the different brand names used by Premier versus “PetSafe”. In addition, RSC was in discussion with several very big box stores about getting product (or more product) placement. These big companies wanted fewer brand names to keep up with. I wasn’t privy to all of the discussions, but I know Premier staff fought hard to retain the Premier brand and separation from the parent company. As usual, the phrase “follow the money” seems apt.
Q 3 - Why the rebranding then?
I can only surmise it is easier and more potentially profitable for them. What they are “tossing out with the bathwater” is the credibility, respect and all the relationships Premier spent 20 years developing with the training & behavior community.
If you haven’t seen RSC’s announcement yet, visit http://www.premier.com/View.aspx?page=about/premier/rsc/letterfromjasonhart-september2011.
I hope everyone who reads this will take time to write or call Jason Hart to express your anger and disappointment in RSC’s decision. (jhart@petsafe.net) They do not believe we trainers and other pet professionals matter regarding their bottom line profits. Let’s prove them wrong.
I also hope you will show your displeasure and protest by refusing to make purchases from the Premier booth at the APDT conference. Stop by the booth and offer condolences and support for the Premier employees, but investigate new vendors at the tradeshow and research replacement products for your training needs. Don’t reward RSC for this behavior. Don’t feed the shark.
As the head of training & behavior for Premier you would obviously be involved in the development of any new “positive – based training products” as was touted at the time of the merger.
Q 4 - Where are they with the development of these positive-based training products?
After the initial announcement of the purchase, I encouraged a very strategic development of the most inventive and attractive electronic reward-based training products first, giving a “slam dunk” to the Premier unit to demonstrate our value, and rewarding the Premier fans for their patience and faith. The Click-R™ Duo got first place in line, and is on the market now, but I don’t think that was our best idea. Some other good ideas from inventors were started; several may leave the stable, a few are staying. I am no longer knowledgeable about all the details. Suffice it to say, you will not see amazing revelations at APDT’s conference as you did last year.
Companies sell products and products make people “long money”. Meaning if they have their name on it and are on the patent they reap the biggest financial rewards.
Q 5 – Would you say money is at the heart of the issue for the people involved on all fronts at this point with RSC?
Sadly, I think profits are the main driving force for most sizeable pet product companies, including food and treat manufacturers. And, because of a focus on the financials over the quality and ethics of products, many will be on the losing side of things – pet owners, pet trainers, and the pets themselves. One of the things I loved about Premier was the balance Sharon Madere strived to achieve between what was good for the brand, the company, the employees, the owners, the pets, and the allied professionals who contributed to, endorsed, and/or used the products themselves. We actually considered the pets to be one of our customers. I don’t see that with most manufacturers we know. It was a unique model.
I do believe there are some very responsible companies out there. I sure hope they can avoid being eaten by sharks.
If I knew any brilliant economists, I would like to ask the question – “Why do companies have to keep growing exponentially to be considered successful? What’s wrong with providing good, quality US-made products at a reasonable price, employing people with living wages and good working conditions, and making products people and their pets can trust and enjoy?”
It would appear from the outside looking in to this merger and how it has progressed that dollars not dogs is the motivation for the higher ups at RSC.
Q 6 – Would that be an accurate assessment? Because the skeptics and those that were not happy about the merger will be saying, “we told you so”.
Yes, sadly, for a company that claims it wants to be the most trusted, I believe they do very little to earn that trust amongst pet professionals. I hope those professionals will not feed the shark.
And, I’d like to address the “I told you so” thing. Yep. And now what?
Each of us has to make decisions based on our own situations. I respect those who chose to stop purchasing or promoting Premier products right away. (I do. I considered it myself.) But, I expect them to at least try to understand why I did what I did. Each of us proceeded with best intentions. And who is to say either of us didn’t plant seeds in the minds or hearts of shock collar customers or manufacturers (or their employees) which might bear fruit one day? We’ll just have to wait and see.
One of the most debated and discussed topics in dog training and behavior is the use of aversive means, force, fear, pain, choke and shock. Some people are convinced that “shock does not hurt”, yet anyone with a shred of insight into how behavior works, especially in dogs; would know that positive punishment (P+) adding and aversive to decrease behavior has to have some type of harm or pain/fear/aversion other wise it will not work; it is in the quadrant, Skinner and others are saying this will cause some harm or at the very least discomfort but how much remains question and then there is the responsibility – ethics – emotions and knowledge about dog behavior of the person administering the shock. That’s a tall order considering most dog owners cannot deliver a reward at the right time.
Dr. R K Anderson, my mentor, friend, and teacher, reminds me repeatedly that punishment is a normal part of learning. But, of course, there is a huge difference between punishment and pain, between consequences that reduce behavior because the subject doesn’t care for them and those that cause pain, fear, aversion, or constant abuse and annoyance.
I believe pet professionals and manufacturers should adhere to the “First do no harm” pledge that veterinarians do. If one creates, promotes, or uses a product that can be misunderstood or misused, it is that organization’s (or person’s) responsibility to educate the consumer on the correct usage (if there is one) and/or find ways to limit who can purchase or use it. I believe Radio Systems has failed miserably in owning and shouldering that responsibility. They repeatedly employ the euphemism “static” when referring to shock products, they do not empathetically investigate claims of injury, they sponsor “studies” which will bolster their position on shock collars, and they provide “do it yourself” shock collar fencing even though they know that the education piece is essential to effective and safe use. Heck, most of these guys won’t even train their own dogs with the shock collars they sell; they hire someone else to do it.
Q 7 – What is your stance on the use of electronic shock by trainers or pet dog owners to decrease behavior or contain dogs in boundaries?
I personally will not use shock in any way. I’ve been training for 10 - years and have never come across a case where there were not several viable options to consider rather than using shock. In addition, I have spent many hours helping owners and pets to overcome the fallout from the use of shock products, including aggression, bites to humans, and universally fearful behavior. To me, there is no reason to gamble with the uncertain outcome of shock products when one knows how to use the entire spectrum of learning science. I will not do it.
In your training & behavior career you must have seen dogs damaged and made behaviorally unsound by being shocked.
Q 8 – (A) Had anyone ever brought the risks and fallouts of shock to the folks at RSC, and if so (B) what was their level of concern for dogs that would be severely damaged? (C) How much research into the detriments of shock has RSC done?
(A) Absolutely. Repeatedly.
(B) Level of concern for the dogs? In my opinion, negligible.
(C) Concern for paying consultants for defensive language to counter concerns about shock collar burns or other fallout? Significant.
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Oh dear our fears are being realised
As I look at our shop stocked to the brim with Premier enrichment products I now feel a little sick in the pit of my stomach.
In Europe there is a movement away from shock products with them being banned now in many EU countries with Wales being the latest to introduce a ban. More and more EU countries are now considering a ban on anything shock related. I guess Premier and PetSafe are large US companies and EU purchases are probably tiny compared to US sales.
What to do? Premier enrichment products are wonderful and make the lives of so many home alone dogs so much easier but at what cost? Can anyone recommend another company who make similar innovative products, apart from KONG? Maybe it is time for another company to step in and fill the gap as, based on this, it is apparant that PetSafe don't have welfare and enrichment of our companion animals at heart.
Tara Choules
Dog Training Ireland
sensation harness
For this reason as well as others, I now carry the sensation harness (softtouchconcepts)...the original front controlled harness that has soft lining underneath the legs. Joana njsitnstay.com
Brava
Standing ovation for Janet.
It pains me greatly not to be able to purchase Premier products. I was in a pet store yesterday and saw some new products that made my mouth water. But dog training survived before Premier, it will survive after. Hopefully another company will come along and fill in the gaps (Kong, we need you! :} Also hopefully the inventors of some of these great products, like the Manners Minder and the Click Stick, will find new manufacturers to make them. And then I'll buy them again.
I will not feed the shark.
At this point, buying a Premier product is very much like buying a puppy from a pet store. You like it, it fits your needs, you're going to turn a blind eye to what you're supporting with your purchasing dollars. Don't do it.
Leah Roberts Family Pet Trainer http://dogwilling.weebly.com
well done
Thank you Janet for standing up for what you believe in. I am so saddened to hear about the catastrophic fall of a once great company.
Kate Pickett
Keenly Canine
www.keenlycanine.com
With interest
I've been reading about and discussing this merger.
Reading the experiences of ex-Premier employees and their stand for their beliefs. Discussing how the big name inventors are re-evaluating how to stay in the game so their products can move through Premier into the big box stores... and hearing that they really believe... IF the public continues to buy products that are used in "positive" dog training, their purchasing power will surpass those who buy those products that are corrective. (feed the positive, ignore the negative) Ergo RCS will notice where their sales are, and make adjustments to push the positive products.
Then I read the posts on the CAPPDT list about the 'benefits' of using e-collars and see the numbers of trainers increase in support of such products, DESPITE the Code of Ethics guiding the group... I cannot guess how all this business will play out.
Thank you for the interview.
My best
Donna Toews, CPDT-KA
reflectionpetservices.com/
Very sad, but not so cut and dried for me.
Here is where I'm conflicted... Many good products that were under contract with Premier are now with PetSafe, products that benefit dogs immensely. If people stop buying these existing and upcoming products they may fail. This will send the message to Radio Systems that there is no money in enrichment and positive training products and they will invest their time and money elsewhere, in their tried and true electric products instead.
They bought Premier for a reason, a large shock company expanded their product line dramatically and with wonderful products. Isn't that a good thing? Don't we reward progress?
Behavior that has been successful (in this case, selling shock products) doesn't disappear in a day, we know this to be true. So why aren't we rewarding successive approximations of a new and improved behavior that we'd like to see more of in the future?
Make no mistake, I understand this company wants to make money, everyone in business does and it is how our society functions (for better or worse, that is another story entirely) these people have resources and money to invest. Why not show them *good* products sell?
We are a clever bunch and know how to motivate people. I'm not sure punishment (boycott) is the way to go here. I'd rather shape their behavior.
Kelly Gorman Dunbar Editor, Dog Star Daily
Make your opinions known
Kelly, I empathize with the conflict you are feeling. I've been immersed in it for almost 2 years. Personally, I have gone as far along that path as I intend to. I tried to shape behavior, I tried R+, I employed many of the same techniques I use effectively in pet dog classes, in business, and in daily interactions. I was involved with trying to show them *good* products and how valuable they are. Instead of progress, I saw regression. For these reasons, I am encouraging protests in any form colleagues would like to pursue -- feedback (feel free to phrase it any way you like), discourse, complaint, or boycott. Just be sure you let them know in no uncertain terms where you stand. There are some things that are worth taking a stand for. Thanks. Janet Velenovsky
Kelly, I hear this logic
Kelly,
I hear this logic often -- supposedly we can shape corporate behavior (or TV celebrities' behavior!) by reinforcing even slight approximations of what we like. The big problem with this thinking is that we don't control the availability of reinforcers. RSC has access to lots of reinforcement for selling aversive-based training products. The only way to remove that reinforcement for the production and sale of aversive products is to persuade the vast majority of dog guardians that these products are to be avoided.
Money is fungible. Money we spend at RSC, even money spent on products we like, goes into RSC's money pool, which it can use to develop and market aversive products. I'm done with this company.
Jolanta Benal, CPDT-KA, CBCC-KA, PMCT-2
This IS cut and dried for me and has been since day one.
When P&G bought Natura, I dumped Natura, and when Radio Fence bought Premier, I dumped them. Thanks to my own research, and some cool suggestions from people like Pat Miller and Grisha Stewart, I can provide my students with recommendations for equipment that works, but does NOT put dollars in the pockets of people who make shock collars for a living, and couldn't care less about the dogs so long as the dollars roll in. Don't feed the shark. Feed companies like Snoot Loop, Sensation, Walk Your Dog with Love, Freedom Harness, Treatstik, etc. We positive trainers MADE Premier and we can reward other companies the same way.
Thank You
Thank you Janet for coming out about this. When I heard that Radio Systems bought Premier a while back, I had hope that they were attempting to get away from shock. When I heard about them getting rid of the Premier brand I just got angry. Angry enough to never give them a dime of my money again. I am holding hope that some of the inventors of these products are able to jump ship with the rebranding. I have no idea what their agreements are.
I will not feed the shark. I will not reinforce their behavior with my money and I don't want to be assosicated with the PetSafe brand at all!!!!!
Don't feed the shark.
I don't shop in petstores if they sell dogs. I don't buy Natura because P and G owns them. To me it's really obvious. RSC is NOT interested in positive dog training, they are interested in money and it's obvious from this article, Premier has not changed their mind. They are willing to give up the Premier name (well known to us positive folks) to give in to the likes of the big box stores. Sorry, My money and recommendations go elsewhere and I am managing just fine with a hand made click stick and Sensation, etc. There are other options. It's time to stand up and do the right thing....always, for the dogs.
My blog: http://banditsbuddies.blogspot.com
Feeding The Sharks....
As with Tara our stock area is full of Premier products. They are hugely popular items with owners, the dogs and with my ability to run a sustainable company. We have decided not to reorder more stock, we'll run down what we have, search for alternatives and then review the situation.
Lynda, Positive Animal Solutions (UK)
Re: Very sad, but not so cut and dried for me.
I completely agree with Kelly's post. I see and hear the disappointment but let's not be too quick to punish the new owners with a boycott. Let's consider for a moment, that Radio Systems' profits have been on the decline and maybe because the +R movement is gaining ground and the only way to stay in the game is to buy out their competition, Premier, and start reaping those rewards. Food for thought...
Just this week, I was able to persuade a client to use the Gentle Leader Head Collar instead of the traditional pinch collar on their 4-month old puppy. I want the Premier products to continue to be manufactered and be available for sale regardless of who owns the company.
Cindy Lonnstrom, CTC Owner and Training Manager Diva Dogs
Positive results of a boycott
I am in the UK, and not really aware of the background to this, but it seems to me that businesses routinely off load those parts of their organisation that are not making them money. So a boycott may be the way for Premier to regain its independence.
Lots of good points here, and time will tell...
I definitely see where everyone is coming from, and understand the anger and frustration. Every one must honor their own ethical code and do what allows them to sleep at night. Actions will ultimately speak louder than words. Time will tell whether RSC will honor the products that made Premier so fabulous, and a trusted member of the dog training community.
Kelly Gorman Dunbar Editor, Dog Star Daily
Fairy Tales
With all due respect, Kelly, believing that RSC is doing anything more honorable than trying to grab the side of the profits they have been unable to get to this point (from the dog-friendly community), and along with that gleefully grabbing the opportunity to upsell their more expensive torture devices... well, that's in the same ballpark as believing that Santa Claus really will come down your chimney this Christmas. :}
They are counting on these additional profits. Boycott them, hit them in their wallets, and show the world that we will stand up for what we believe. I wouldn't put a dollar in RSC's pocket any more than I would fund dog fighting.
Leah Roberts Family Pet Trainer http://dogwilling.weebly.com
I'm the minority here
but for me it is about the product not the company 99% of the time.
The two products I buy most from Premier are Gentle Leader head halters and Sure Fit harnesses.
I simply cannot get the same quality and exact type (fit, material etc) ANYWHERE else and i have looked so I will continue to buy from premier/petsafe until that changes
Same thing with natura food. I have substituted something else some of the time for 1 of the foods I bought they make but not the other because there is no substitute and until the formula changes for the bad or the product loses quality I will remain with a product I know works
Those of you who adore those front snap harness products you do have an option- go to the originators of the product- Sensation. They were always the best version anyhow. Me personally I rarely ever use or recommend those because to me they are far over used and often on dogs they should not (reactive dogs, dog aggressive dogs, dogs with over the top prey drive and human sharpness) those dogs need a product that controls the sharp parts ie a martingale collar or a head halter and not a harness of any form. Have seen some near tragedies in dogs from other trainers who think these front clip harnesses are the be all end all
At any rate, as long as the GL Head halters and Sure fit harnesses are the same high quality and cannot be substituted for EXACTLY (and no none of the other halters or harnesses are exact matches or even close to as good in my opinion for my pruposes) then I will continue to buy them but also steer clear of the electronics
Sensible choices
It is nice to see some sensible statements in Kelly & Cindy's comments and even rottlady. I agree with them, we are about reward based training, so lets reward for the positive, continue to purchase the many fabulous Premier products, don't deny the dogs these fabulous items (at the end of the day it IS about the animals), and for "negative reinforcement" don't buy and don't recommend the adversive products.
By boycotting the known Premier products we run the risk of doing the very thing we don't want to do - inadervently allow the company bosses to believe this positive reinforcement and environmental enrichment is rubbish, because no one wants the stuff. By all means don't stock it if you don't want to but don't rubbish those people that still believe in the Premier brand and choose to use Postive Reinforcement to do so...........isn't that what we are all about.
I have the ability, common sense and intellegence to recognise the value of the Premier brands. I specialise in environmental enrichment products, so I mainly only go for the toys. I do stock the Gentle leader harness but I personally don't like the Gentle Walker harness, as I have yet to see it actually work...........perhaps because it has been placed blindly on an inappropriate dog by a trainer that can't see past their personal favorite - so I won't stock it! Now I know that many on this blogg would swear by the Gentle walker, saying it is far better than the Gentle leader, and the Gentle Leader causes head & neck injuries, something of which I have NEVER seen - yet. My point is, I choose not to stock certain items from the company because I don't believe in it, but do stock the items I believe in.
I think we are doing our clients a major disservice by assuming they cannot work that out too. And not only that but many trainers are doing themselves a disservice, in appearing to not have faith in their own abilities as trainers and educators. By being so "militant" almost, we are alientating ourselves from the very people we want to educate.
I understand the frustration from the point of view of observing new management (my partner & I have recently sold a business to which my partner is now an employee, it IS frustrating to see things from a different perspective and done in a way you would not do yourself). Just last week, I have had communication with a staff member of Premier. They are very saddened and hurt by what is going on on many bloggs, and hope that eventually common sense will prevail. They believe passionately in their product and have been given access to funds to develop more exciting products. Whilst recognising that they may be frustrated in some ways, they are upset that if the Premier brand is boycotted the parent company will eventually do away with the brand, learning nothing other than environmental enrihment and positive reinforcement is just a fad.
Reinforcing the Takeover
It so frustrates me when somebody says "Ignore the bad behavior and reinforce the good," as if that was in any way applicable in this situation. Do you control all the reinforcers? Sure, if we could set it up so that ONLY the R+ products were purchased and the shock products were ignored, then there would actually be some sense in this statement. Just what morality lesson do you think RSC is going to gain from continued purchase of the products? Right - none. They are simply going to get more money. Out of pockets that used to be closed to them. Yea, there's a lesson there - but not the one you think.
Continued purchase of Premier products is feeding the shark. And selfish. Yes, you love the products. Sometimes one has to make a sacrifice to take a stand. I have the greatest respect for those who are taking a stand by discontinuing the purchase of these products.
Here's what I'd like to see from RSC: give up the rights to all Premier products so that another company (like Kong) can come along and pick them up. Is that possible? Maybe, maybe not. But that is the only way I will ever purchase another Gentle Leader or Click Stick - if it does not carry the PetSafe/RSC brand name.
Leah Roberts Family Pet Trainer http://dogwilling.weebly.com
Mostly Positive
I desired so badly to find a reason to stick with Premier. I prefer head halters for most clients, and the GL is the most effective and affordable. I've tested a bajillion (exact number) food-dispensing toys, and the Squirrel Dude is the big favorite. Most of their products rank on the top of my list.
However, I'm now working on compiling a list of high quality replacement items. (They are out there, they really are. I hear amazing things about the NewTrix head halter, and the old Kong standby is certainly not shabby.) I'd love to hear your suggestions!
It IS important to me where my money goes, and although it may be just a drop in the bucket to RSC, it will mean a BIG positive difference to a small company with ethics that align with mine.
I'd love to hear a solution from RSC that allows my money to leave a footprint that only furthers the ethical and intelligent treatment of animals, but I am not sure that is possible.
Katie Fetch Dog Training www.fetchmpls.com
NewTrix dog halters
For your edification, there is an alternative to the Gentle Leader. Invented and designed by veterinarian, Dr. Robert Curran, the NewTrix dog halter reverses the opposition reflex and stops dogs pulling with calm, kind control. NewTrix Inc. is exhibiting at the APDT conference in San Diego and you can visit the booth for a demonstration by Dr. Curran.
Sandy Day, NewTrix Inc., http://newtrix.ca/
New Trix
I actually just saw one of these on a dog last week. While I think it's a great design for pulling it does not fulfill my need for a halter that you can turn a dogs nose and eyes away from what it wants to "get" ie being dog aggressive, people aggressive or in extreme prey drive. While training such dogs I will actually take the down tab of the GL and turn the dogs gaze from whatever and break the adrenaline cycle. The new Trix cannot do this anymore than a collar can. The Haltis and snoot loops while they can just don't work as well FOR ME
The myth of the heavy hand
The myth of the heavy hand - You don't need fear and pain to train dogs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=WGZnQlFevf0
Drayton Michaels CTC www.pitbullguru.com www.urbandawgs.com