Guilty Or Not Guilty?

I've contemplated this since I saw the study and have observed my Yorkie's behavior. She has a bad habit of sometimes pooping in a hidden place in the house so she can eat it. YES! I know it is disgusting. I can't break her of it. She knows I don't like it that's why she hides while doing it. Most of the time I can tell when she's done it because her body language changes, as if she either 1)feels guilty (probably not) or 2)is afraid I am going to find out and get mad. I may be wrong, but I think dogs' memories are better than we give them credit for.

My dog often acts guilty long before I find out what she's done. I have to walk around the house inspecting things: looking for empty treat bags or pee spots, sometimes I can't even find what she did!

In my experience, dogs that look guilty are simply afraid of their owner's reaction to what they've learned will create the said reaction. A "guilty" dog is more submissive and fearful than guilty. To say a dog feels guilt is to say that a dog has a conscience. If dogs have a conscience, then surely we would observe them feeling guilty even when there is no chance of them being in trouble.

In order to feel guilt, one has to linger on the memory of the action that created the feeling of guilt. I believe that dogs live in the moment and therefore don't linger on memories that could cause a feeling of sadness, guilt, or even happiness. Since we know that dogs are great at building associations, I believe dogs simply react to the present situation and base their actions on past experiences. So the dog is displaying avoidance, fear, and/or submission and the human simply sees guilt.

I'm happy to report that if there was a "guilty look", my crew somehow missed that chapter in their "how to act like a dog 101". (mind you they also missed the "no!" chapter :)

I've inadvertently conducted my own survey where treats and food have been left in reach from time to time over a number of years. And to date my beagles & aussie have on occassion enjoyed a portion of or helped them selves to the entire dish. Sometimes it's left intact with dogs sitting patiently for their share after I've eaten mine.

When they have helped themselves, I am happy (and proud ) to report that upon returning, I've come back to dogs who are either still licking their lips and wagging their tails, and if anything happy to let me know how much they enjoyed it and if they could, would have a dish in their mouth to ask for seconds (actually my Beagle Daizy does that in a way. She'll bring me her kong to stuff with whatever I'm enjoying).

I'm not sure I believe in guilty looks, maybe learned appeasement?

I'm a redirector and most of the time try to manage the situation so as not to set them up to fail. If they fail, that means I need to take a look at the situation and find out a healthy solution. I prefer to knock my head against the wall or tuck my tail between my legs and go back to the drawing board than to use a behaviour that resembles "appeasement" or "looking guilty" as a crutch.

happy-houndz.blogspot.com

cheers,

kate

I know there is a HUGE difference between trying to avoid getting caught and actually feeling guilty about what you're doing or have done.

Have you watched COPS? Even humans will resort to submissive, remorseful behavior when caught doing something they shouldn't. That doesn't for one second mean that they agree it was wrong or feel actual guilt or remorse. It simply means they don't want to be punished.

To feel guilt, there has to be some understanding and internal agreement that the action is indeed wrong. As far as I can see, right or wrong for dogs is all about outcomes. If you can grab a piece of bologna off the counter, get it to a human-free area and eat it without punishment, that's the right thing to do! It results in a positive outcome, it's good.

I don't doubt that a dog is still aware, with bologna on his breath, that human presence could result in punishment. Not unlike the way I slow down and pretend to be a law-abiding driver when I spot a cop on the side of the road. Do I feel guilty for speeding, not in the least. Do I want to avoid punishment, absolutely!

The definition of guilt, according to Chambers dictionary, is "the state of having done wrong: sin, sinfulness: the state of having broken a law: liability to a penalty." Dogs whose owners know their dog has "done something wrong" and then find "poop" behind the couch (as desribed in the post above) may be witnessing guilt. Even if the dog is acting sheepishly because it is concerned that it may be punished, that fits quite into the first and last part of the definition.

I think there's a difference between being guilty of something and feeling guilty about your actions. The definition you give is that of being guilty.

Again, I can be found guilty of speeding and do everything in my power to reduce my level of punishment, but that still doesn't mean that I actually feel guilt/remorse.

I think this is an important distinction when talking about dogs and dog owners. I'll buy that the dog may be admitting guilt, as in, "Yes, I pooped behind the couch and by the look on your face and tone of your voice I can tell I'm in trouble. Perhaps if I hang my head and tail while giving you puppy dog eyes, you'll go easy on me."

However, that's different than the dog thinking, "Pooping behind the couch is a bad thing, I feel terrible for doing that, why do I keep doing bad things, I'm so sorry."

Okay...now that I've talked that out, I'm saying there is a difference between being guilty and feeling remorseful. While professionals may naturally see and understand that difference, I don't think owners always do.

But the owner of the pooping dog did not "see the look on the owner's face" and then act sheepish. It acted sheepish and only THEN did the owner know something was up. What did "the look" convey? What was the dog signaling [that was not in response to the owner's behavior]? Does anyone else out there know of a dog who acts "guilty" before they confirm that something "bad" has happened. If so, pray do tell ....

Dr. Dodman asks, "Does anyone else out there know of a dog who acts "guilty" before they confirm that something "bad" has happened. If so, pray do tell ...."

Actually yes. I have puzzled over this for YEARS. My now dearly departed and near perfect behaviorally (really!) Oliver really didn't ever get into things such as garbage, etc.

However, once in a blue moon (2x a year or so) he would not be able to resist snagging a yogurt container or something like that and he'd take it to some far corner and lick it clean. No big crime really, but I scolded him for it upon discovery the first few times.

Ollie greeted me at the door every time I came home. Let's say 363 days of the year that greeting would be hearty and happy. 2 days of the year or so he'd skulk up to me with a very sheepish look literally right when I walked in with no clue that something might be amiss. If Ollie acted this way I knew to check the house and find the "damage" as mentioned before, generally an empty container swiped from somewhere.

Ollie's look and behavior upon my arrival is what alerted me to the "crime". Essentially, he told on himself.

I didn't (don't?) believe in doggy remorse so always tried to explain the situation away by saying that Ollie was merely pairing the presence of "empty container on the floor" with "bad news for Ollie", until...

I moved in with Ian who often GIVES the dogs nearly empty yogurt containers. If I came home to an empty container on the dog bed that had been given to Ollie he acted normal and happy to greet me.

Interesting, eh?

Kelly Gorman Dunbar
Editor, Dog Star Daily

I had a roommate in grad school who could be very harsh with his dog when he came home to find that the dog had gotten into something - usually the trash. He and I had the guilt debate over and over. Finally, one day when I knew that he would be home any minute, I knocked the trash can over myself and kicked the trash around the kitchen floor a bit. His dog looked every bit as "guilty" about the trash that I got into as he ever did about trash he raided himself. I suspect that most of the stories that I hear about "guilty" looks have to do with learning that certain situations lead to angry owners, but I have no clue about what dogs are really capable of in terms of putting cause and effect together in these kinds of scenarios.

I'm thinking these things:

Ollie: Any guilt was about taking something off the counter, not for eating yogurt, specifically. So, when Ian gives Ollie yogurt, it's an entirely different thing. There was no counter surfing involved. Just as my dogs will act differently if they've stolen a piece of liverwurst from the counter as opposed to being handed a piece by me.

Jeff's roommates dog: Trash on floor + owner = trouble. Doesn't matter how it got there, just that the combo was a bad one.

I would say that the sheepishness without any indication that the owner was angry doesn't really change things completely. The presence of the owner alone is enough to threaten punishment. Even if a cop doesn't look at me as I speed past him, I do cringe and get a bit sheepish, because I know speeding + cop = potential punishment. I don't need the red lights to have a response.

I wonder how this guilty look or behavior correlates with how often the owner punishes the dog and in what way. I mean, if a dog were constantly in trouble, then the presence of the owner at any time could represent potential punishment. Just as children who grow up in homes where they're constantly reprimanded will often develop a generalized guilt.

The whole thing is interesting, isn't it?

Precisely Cindy. Ollie saved his "guilty" look for times he'd taken something. I've no doubt dogs can distinguish between when they've been given something or taken it opportunistically.

My main point was that the "guilty look" only happened when he'd taken something and the telltale look always appeared before I knew anything was amiss. So I guess you could say at the very least he was making an association between "I've taken something" (in the past) and "uh oh, now she's home"? It's still quite a cognitive leap, no?

For the record, the scolding he'd get for such an offense was extremely mild. Not a big deal to me and really not a big problem. He wasn't afraid of me seeing the container, I usually just expressed disappointment.

Kelly Gorman Dunbar
Editor, Dog Star Daily

I came home from a client's and called out to the dogs. Only one appeared and I went looking for the others. It didn't take me but a second to smell the problem....the young one had had explosive Dire-Rear and she was hiding in a corner... shaking and with large eyes. I wasn't able to get to her unless I cleaned a path so she watched me approach with mop and bucket, cowering and shaking.

I suppose I could have thought that she was acting guilty but I'm more sure that she is unwell and fearful of another event. She may be feeling "punished" as I'm not allowing her on my bed at this time. She was lying quietly and suddenly "yiked"... jumped up and dashed frantically around the house rather than going outside as her body cramped and betrayed her.

As a clean dog, she must be feeling something. Her reaction is quite extreme. It looks like guilt.. just a different kind.

Donna
Put a springer in your step!

I don't doubt that dogs feel guilty or bad about things. Mine acts really sheepish when she "soils the den" too, I know right away from the look on her face before the smell even hits. I think in this case it's innate and therefore one of the few situations where it's actually "wrong" in the dog's mind--she does not choose to poop in our living quarters. (For the record I'm not mad tho.)

Dogs can also learn and understand that some things are off-limits or that a release or "OK" is required for certain rewards, so if a transgression occurs, either it was worth the reprimand or they thought they could get away with it unnoticed... but I'm pretty sure it's not actually guilt when people say "they know they did something wrong". Yes, the dog probably feels bad, and for complex reasons, but that behaviour isn't necessarily always and intrinsically wrong. Few behaviours really are, to a dog. I guess you can always conduct an experiment like Jeff did. Poor dog.