DogTown Versus The Dog Whisperer

Thanks, Nicole. I think a lot of people are uncertain as to why some of Cesar's methods can be ineffective, and in some cases, detrimental. This article respectfully clarifies that and I thank you for providing some very thoughtful and accessible analysis. I hope people will not only consider using alternative methods to Cesar's, but they'll also understand why there has been concern about them among other dog trainers and behaviorists.

Great post Nicole. When I first got my dog, I was under the impression that the Dog Whisperer was "the thing". I read both of his books and there is a lot of good stuff in them (although the second book doesn't add much). But right from the start I noticed I felt guilt. When my dog was "bad" I felt I must not be calm assertive enough, and I didn't know how to be. Later, I started to realize that the DW doesn't actually give much practical advice. My dog doesn't respond to collar corrections much and I felt bad about giving them and was confused about how to do it. Eventually, although he does have some very important truths that he conveys, I gave up on him for future advice.

I took myself and my dog to a great school where they taught us methods that a practically guaranteed to work (luring) that gave us more progress then we ever had. And it was fun for both of us. And I wasn't confused. Every week we both get better, and my dog has made some miraculous calming transformations in areas unrelated to training.

Anyway it's good to see more shows on the air. Here's my blog post where I point out some of the logical flaws with the DW show:

http://natalietootie.com/?p=598

Nice article. While it's apparent that you don't approve of many of Cesar's techniques, it's nice to see someone criticize Cesar's methods without coming off as superior or venomous. Like the above poster, I found some of Cesar's basic techniques helpful, but have since moved on to incorporate other methods.

I feel like I need to clarify your observation on the fight that was broken up by the owners. The video from that fight appeared to be taken with a home video camera, and not by the DW crew. It was likely from their application video, or from their personal home videos. I would've liked Cesar to say something like "don't put your dogs in dangerous situations to prove they are aggressive for videos submitted to DW."

I'm also very leery of drawing comparisons between teenage human behavior and dog behavior. One could also argue that a dog like Trinity, who was aggressive toward all dogs, would begin to see other dogs as less threatening after living among a large pack for 2 months. Applying human psychology to dogs can be a very dangerous thing.

All that being said, I too am happy to see any dog training shows on TV. Just getting the message out that "your dog needs training" is great.

You know, I have the special privilege of working with Project POOCH. This is a program that pairs shelter dogs with incarcerated youth. The true beauty of the program is the absolute parallel between the dogs and the kids!

Many of these kids have previously learned through Cesar-esque methods of being punished, pushed around and dominated. They've been let down and misunderstood. They've comitted crimes.

Just as their rehab relies heavily on respecting boundaries and limitations (as Cesar likes to say), it also requires a HUGE dose of love, caring and respect for where they come from and what they've been through.

I have never seen such efficient, effective trainers as these boys! They totally get the idea of positive reinforcement. They are in no hurry to push their dogs. They KNOW how hard it is to change. They KNOW what it feels like to attempt to overcome your past experiences.

I think the analogy Nicole used here is perfect, and I would bet money that the teens I work with at Project POOCH would agree, too.

I hope that viewers tune into Dog Town on a regular basis and start making comparisons of their own. Really great post, beautifully done.

Thank you so much Nicole for this thoughtful post. I'm looking forward to the day when inhumane "training" is finally seen for what it is, animal cruelty.

ToledoDogTraining.Com
PerkyPawsCafe.Com

Great article Nicole - beautifully thought out and so straight forward and easy to understand; I will definitley be directing clients here who are in need of an intervention!
Many of these methods are not seen as inhumane becuase of the lack of outward violence towards the animal although I have seem some pretty severe leash corrections and what can only be described as wrestling but psychological, emotional and behavioural damage speaks just as clearly as physical injury, as is likely well demonstrated by those recovering Pit Bulls.
The use of flooding and domineering techniques are, in my mind, just as cruel and inhumane as physical corrections - the damage done is just as note worthy.
The best advice for anyone on the fence is to thoroughly research dog body language (particularly calming signals etc.) and then watch with the sound turned down - the dogs speak loud and clear!

Pit bulls are able to be rehabbed. They can be because as Caesar says “dogs live in the moment.” The information that is omitted in this article and the DogTown show is that PIT BULLS are neither a breed nor are bred with pack orientation or linguistics. The breed was created out of combining antisocial genetic traits selected for each breeding.

As the only dog in a home they can be good pets. This breed is and will always be dog aggressive until the antisocial genetics is bred out of them. I have tried on several occasions to rescue pit bulls. On every occasion singularly they are fine and require very little training, are obedient, loving, and willing. However, on every occasion of social environments these dogs “zone out” and without provoke, they attack! On the rarest occasion will you find a pit bull that can be in a social environment, but they can never be trusted 100%.

Having spent 30 years in the area of animal training…horses, dogs, birds…I have always found that the many forms of training available are always crippled by humans that learn in diverse formats. None of these human formats are interchangeable with animal formats of communication. Some people learn and excel in one type of animal training and not another and this is the primary reason new training techniques are require…so the humans can get it. Thus…animal problems are always related to the human’s inability to recognize, comprehend and implement specific natural animal formats of communication. Natural animal formats of communications (herd and pack forms) are based on the reality that all animals co-exist inter-species and intra-species successfully in the wild.

“Whispering” is based on these studied and documented natural forms of communication in the wild. This is the technique that Caesar uses. Objections to this “whispering” is an objection to the natural animal formats of communication and this objection is crippling to the historical co-existence of animals. When these natural forms do not work it is only due to the undeniable interference of humans that have prevented the animal’s upbringing in its natural form of language. Working with horses using “whispering” I have experience ones that did not understand the herd language and the “whispering” techniques did not work. Their lack of exposure to their own species body language leaves them unable to communicate using it. It’s the same as a natural born English speaker with no foreign language skills being dropped off in China…they would not understand a word spoken.

The solution to helping these horses that did not understand “whispering” was to turn them out in a field of horses and let their same species teach them the language…then use the “whispering” again, and every time it worked to erase the fear and allow training! This is the same thing Caesar implements. The problems then arise in turning the horse or dog back over to the clueless communicators…the owners. Unless the owners are able to be taught…the animals will revert back to their original state in days and weeks.

Dogs don’t communicate the way humans do and they don't develop attachments of affection the ways humans do…they are more efficient and love unconditionally…unlike humans. SO, why do we try to make them like us? When this fails we decide to create a new better form of training and condemn all others that came before.

I could not bear to watch the “whispering” episode. I did not have to, the title Dueling Pit Bulls was enough to make my stomach turn. Besides after an hour of what I consider one of the land mark events in TV dog training I wanted to end my night and start the next day on a wave of optimism. There are too many hours for us Pit Bull advocates spent feeling sadness, pain and anger over people who sell the Pit Bull breed out for their own agendas.

Best Friends Animal Society dog trainers Mr. Jon Garcia & Ms. Allum actually explained what they were doing and why, with simple and easy steps. In addition they showed a training plan being devised prior to the training being implemented. For those of us who work with the science of animal learning theory and train and modify dog behavior based on humane approaches founded in scientific and mathematical (Distance & Duration) approaches; we know that you do not want dogs to rehearse unwanted behavior, especially aggression.
Furthermore it is all about the intake of information, getting prior knowledge of dog’s before you start working with them. It was great to see Dog Town touch on this. When you have a history of two dogs fighting and causing damage as in the case of the two Pits on the other show you do not let it happen! EVER! It can be avoided if you go slow, which Dog Town kept repeating, be patient and as Jon Garcia said be “Dedicated”, “ Go big or go home” was his actual statement; I agree. That means taking the emotional and physical well being of dogs and people into consideration. “Going big” means showing people HOW to approach aggression and fear based behaviors in a way that will keep people and dogs safe.

For me the only part of the Dog Town show that I felt could have been improved was the one dust up with Cherry and the other dog. I would have kept the greeting moving and had a bit more of a toggle of back and forth sniffs and YES markings & food rewards for any contact or checking out. The reason I believe the dust up was edited into the episode was the brass at Nat Geoprobobly felt the show needed to have something mildly sensationalistic. It could have also been edited out of sequence and added in against the wishes of The Dog Town staff? Not sure, but I suspect it was a decision made by Nat Geo, Not Best Friends.

By the way; when Ms. Allum explained to the audience in two sentences what a reward marker was and how she was using it I just about fell of the couch! Concise, basic advice! Wow what a concept? What no “gift”, no other worldly calmness and assertion of your dominance! Take a lesson all you “whisperers” out there, it’s about leverage.
My only other complaint about the Dog Town Vick dog episode was about every 15 – 20 minutes they showed the same blue toned reel of the dogs fighting in the pit. I truly believe this comes down from on high at the network. Most likely these media bosses are people who do not have dogs. They’re definitely not Pit Bull owners or advocates of the breed. It is done for ratings; period. It is unconscionable.

Other than that it was a watershed moment for TV dog training in the USA and explaining the plight of the pit bull dog on TV. I was impressed.
The “other show” that features the uneducated guy with the “gift” is a travesty, I don’t care what episode it is, and they’re all pretty much the same deal. Be calm, be assertive? Dog training is a mechanical skill based on timing recognizing the dogs’ behavior. This whole whispering thing has been a disaster from minute one. It leads people down a road where they are in a motivational void, because dog behavior is contextual and you need to deal with things in different ways many times you need to be jolly and take a few steps back, and consider distractions and how they affect dog behavior and the training process. How you “feel” has something to do with it, but how you respond and how you make associations for the do and how the human implements humane consequences has everything to do with dog training and behavior modification.

The big wigs at Nat Geo were besieged with letters before the whisperers even show aired. Actual dog professionals, vets and top dog trainers with credibility said that it was irresponsible television. However they went ahead with it. It went downhill from there. I used to be able to say that at least this whispering character was pro Pit Bull. This is no longer the case. ANYONE who works with dogs on a humane and responsible level knows the media plight the Pit Bull breed has suffered. Those who’ve done legitimate investigating into the Pit Bull history know the media has been the single factor in the breed prejudice of Pit Bulls. Mr. Millan; you should be ashamed of yourself. Nat Geo you too should be ashamed as well. This was a big chance to help and you made it worse.
This episode of the whisperer is now part of the problem. This show will air in reruns it will be on a DVD. It is now forever etched into the fabric of Pit Bull history and now dog training lore. That is the problem, it will keep cropping up. This episode is just another example of the criteria which surrounds ALL fatal attacks or dog fights that continue after knowledge of the dogs fight history; these are irresponsible actions of humans. Dogs are amoral and aggression in dogs is to create distance due to feeling fear.
I admit I did not watch the other show with the so called “self professed gifted one”. Because the “dog trainer”, er…I mean actor on that show has signed his life away. He does what his bosses tell him to do. That is the real deal; he is locked into a contract. He’s an actor who happens to be comfortable around dogs. His is not a dog trainer in my book; he is no advocate of the Pit Bull breed either. His intentions have always been to be famous, not work towards the betterment of the dog human dynamic. These are his intentions which he has expressed. His actions now prove that beyond a shadow of a doubt.
When I was at the Vick sentencing in Virginia doing street interviews with people. I interviewed two people from the Best Friends Animal Society. They told me they would “address the physical and emotional needs of the 22 dogs that would be arriving”. I also had been extended an invite to come and film for my documentary Judging The Innocent.

After Nat Geo got to Best Friends I was no longer able to come as they too had signed off on certain rights of what they could do with other media. They however kept their word about how they would deal with dogs. From what I saw on the show; all the people on the Dog Town staff exhibited exemplary handling skills. They were all “calm” and they were also very respectful they dealt with dogs as individuals and had a plan based on each of the dogs needs.

This is the difference; Best Friends is in it for the dogs. OK - Wait, I know some people have issues with them, however when the big money from Vick & Nat Geo came in they used that money to bring education and enlightenment to the public, especially about Pit Bulls, but also about how to train dogs and work with emotional issues of dogs. That is what responsible people who work for the betterment of dogs do, they go big, the do the right thing.

Those who choose to do otherwise, be they yahoo dog trainers/hacks/actors what have you….people who use patchwork methods based in some ego centric dominance theory and mislead their clients/audience into thinking it is about a “gift”.
Or it could be media; news or otherwise that distort the facts, omit information or blatantly misguide or “edit for effect” the actions of dogs and humans, these people are not in it for the dogs. There is some other motivation at work. Follow the money.
Dog Town / Best Friends I give you a 98% thumbs up!

That other joker and his bosses scripted sell out approach – you get resounding thumbs down. How can you be aligned with people who would sell out dogs and risk the canine human Bond? Clean up your act! Perhaps if your egos can shrink for a long enough period you can make a trip to Utah and seek some guidance from a real dog trainer such as Jon Garcia.
In the words of Jon Garcia “Go Big or Go Home”, it is time for the whisperer to go home, unless he has the heart and compassion to go big?

Time will tell....

Drayton Michaels CTC
www.pitbullguru.com

Oh yea I got so into my diatribe I forget to say, Thanks Nicole you rock!

I, for one, can honestly say I learned so much more from the Dog Whisperer show, ie. body language. BTW, the paw up is generally a signal that the dog is on the ready - ie. ready to lunge. And Cesar just narrowed his explanation to their particular situation.

On DogTown, when Cherry and the other dog were being introduced and they fought, there was posturing that was very evident and the trainers didn't catch it or stop it. They just let it happen.

When you see Cesar make corrections, but you don't know what the dog's done to get the correction, it's because the dog was just in the very beginning stages of doing something undesired. You probably just don't know what to look for. The more I watch his shows, the more I key in on these cues that Cesar's keyed into. His timing is incredible, which is necessary when stopping an undesired behavior.

Monica, Trinity's owner on Dog Whisperer, was coached into changing her life for the better. You could see the tenseness of hunched shoulders in the beginning. I cringed when she didn't want to exchange dogs with Cesar! I thought now way was she going to be able to handle Trinity. Her whole demeanor changed after she made the decision to work on herself. She made great changes and then became capable of maintaining Trinity's stability. Cesar's coaching brought her to step up to the plate, which was so important. Cesar not only helped Trinity's behavior to change to be balanced, but he also brought great change to Monica.

Personally, if I could choose where to send a red zone dog, I'd choose Cesar in a flash, over DogTown. I also appreciated Cesar's letting the public know that powerful breeds are not for everyone and it takes a special individual to have them. I fear that by DogTown NOT saying that, that it could lead to more BSL - by putting more pits into the hands of those that should not have them. The people need to be strong leaders. If and when the Vicktory dogs are adopted out, it's important that they go to appropriate people, and not just anyone who pays their adoption fee.

Regardless, I can appreciate both shows, both methods. But remember that Cesar is not a dog trainer, which is what those at DogTown are. Cesar is a dog psychologist. Another difference is DogTown trainers have all the time in the world. Cesar doesn't.

Actually, the raising of paws is not a sign that the dog is ready to lunge. It can be an appeasement gesture and is often an invitation to play. A dog who is ready to fight would not lift their paw. You have to be well-grounded and balanced to lunge. One of the things professional trainers look for in dog to dog interactions is a raised paw...it's a very good sign!

Also, you are right that Cesar is not a dog trainer, but you are very, very wrong that he is a dog psychologist. There is no such thing. He has absolutely no credentials. He grew up with outdoor dogs who were not living indoors as part of the family and bases all of his information on his own interpretation of their behavior. We call that anecdotal information.

What Cesar gives is one man's opinion of what dogs are doing, thinking and feeling. He has not bothered to check with anyone else as to the science of dog behavior and learning.

A child lying in a crib has no frame of reference for the outside world. All the child knows is his crib and himself. A nearby window is open. The child kicks his feet and the curtains move. The child believes that kicking his feet has caused the curtains to move because he is completely unaware of the wind.

This child's name is Cesar.

Some body language, like words, are very similar, and may even appear to be the same, yet have very different meanings. I hardly think Trinity was feeling playful at the time. And besides, this is also what (hunting) dogs do before they go darting off for their prey. Keep in mind that wagging tails also do not always mean they're happy and ready to be friends!

All Cesar has to do is show me he knows what he's doing, which he has and does. I don't need to see certificates and letters after his name to prove he's onto something. In fact, the more I see Cesar, I hate to say it but the less appreciation I have for some of those certifications. He's got real life experience - something that I can appreciate. There IS such a thing as a dog psychologist. Cesar's apparently the first. Nothing wrong with being the first, except you have to face ridicule by people that try to negate everything you do. And, believe it or not, the earth was once thought of as being flat. But now we laugh at that.

Cesar's work and experience is so much deeper than methods. But some of you seem to be determined to find fault that you refuse to try and see/learn. Actually, much of what he does cannot be seen. It's mental. If it was all just methods, then dogs would not react completely differently with him when he "tshts" them. Someone else could make the same tshts sound and the dog not do what they wanted. That's evident in his programs when the owner's tense, scared, or otherwise unbalanced.

And Cindy, there was no wind. :)

Hi Nichol, I enjoyed much of your recap of these shows. I have a different perspective to offer if you will consider it~

One key element that is frequently not discussed is the urgency of time difference between Cesar’s Solution and those used at Best Friends (Dog Town). Once Best Friends accept a dog, that dog has a home for the rest of its life, regardless of the speed or extent of its behavior change or health (non-debilitating) condition. The Dog Whisperer show is designed to help dog owners understand how many of those behavior problems are created, where and dangerous conditions/situations occur (along with warning signs to help to see the problems beginning to occur. The show also show Cesar being bitten as a reminder of how dangerous over estimating ones skill or under estimating the problem is and can be. The bottom line is if a dog is harmed – it is NOT Cesar’s way.

The one thing the nay-sayers have never been able to come up with is piece of paper from a reputable source~ vet, emergency room, clinic,~ showing that any dog that Cesar has been worked with has been harmed. Oh, that lawsuit? Cesar wasn’t even in the state. Another trainer “borrowed” his facility while Cesar was gone.

I have experienced for myself the effect of my own emotional reactions on the negative behavior of my rescue dogs. Thanks to Cesar’s solutions I have been able to rehab/re-home over 30 rescue dogs destined to be euthanized most of which have their stories up on my you tube site under cjanderson.

Every dog that I have worked with from Best Friends using Cesar’s solutions have been adopted. I ask them to give me their most challenging dogs when they come to my city for their once a month weekend adoptathons. Further, I took one of their more challenging dogs and was able to get her to successfully pass her Delta Therapy dog testing in under 30 days using Cesar’s basic behavior safer and easily replicatable solutions. This Thursday, I will be getting another – a pit-bull actually, that I will yet again work to get through a successful Delta Society Therapy dog test in under 30 days when they return for their next adoptathon.

I also have had GREAT success with the “good dog teaching bad dog” pack approach, again I have pictures of many introductions up on my you tube site. Actually, one of Cesar’s frequently stated points is that mistakes happen when one treats dogs like children (little humans). So that is a misunderstanding, that the analogy of children to dogs applies when talking about Cesar’s way.

Also, the Dog Whisperer shows are not staged. They are filmed as they occur and if the camera men miss a shot – too bad. This is the show rule for which you will not find anyone who has been a client of the show or worked for the show, to say otherwise. I know because I have seen it for myself. I personally own a yahoo email list that is so true to the teachings of Cesar’s way that it is recommended in his monthly newsletter. We are number 6 in yahoo’s category of 1241 training and obedience groups and the only one in the top 15 to have open archives where anyone here can go to review over 63,000 messages of accurately applied solutions and success stories by thousands of members for any kind of problem behavior dogs and their owners have. Or one can go to any major bookstore to read the wonderful long term successes from the “Dog Whisperer Episode Guide Season 1-3 Shows” (season 4 is completing now).

I use what I have learned to help some of the more challenging Best Friends dogs that come to me, get re-homed, as well as other problem dogs from rescues in my state as an action of love for dogs with no hope. Oh I am also not an employee of CMI or the production company. I own my own Safety health and environmental risk reduction business where I teach for National companies and our Community college, and you can learn about my personal/professional life and dogs at my website at paradigmsanctuaries.com

Wow, you really opened up a can of worms here, Nicole. I am not a dog trainer, just a dog owner trying to do my best to raise well adjusted companions. I have had my share of struggles with trying to socialize and train adolescent dogs that I have adopted. As I said, I am not a dog trainer, so I try to find as many resources as I can to help me do this right. I am also not a dog psychologist, although I do have a degree in psychology. I think that the key to appropriate training for average dog owners is to break down training into behaviour. As owners, we are responsible to make sure that the behaviours our dogs show is appropriate for the various settings we take them to. They have to know to be careful around the lawn mower, be nice to passing dogs, behave in our friend's houses, walk politely with us, be appropriate with guests in our homes, ride in the car, and on and on.

My point is that we cannot address behaviours by trying to have an intuitive understanding of dog behaviour and psyche. We need to address each behaviour and by doing so, we automatically take on a role of teacher and leader for our dogs. Any talk about energy is confusing. That isn't behaviour, you can't measure it, and you can't you can't observe it, and you can't break it down into manageable chunks. Dog training is science, not mysticism. Science is something observable and measurable. The training tips on the pages of this website, from genuine, concerned, talented, well-trained and experienced dog trainers as well as the general tips from other dog owners who also are genuine, concerned and dedicated to their dogs, are very valuable to me. It is important to be calm, centred and focussed when you are training your dog, but I don't find that vague concepts like leadership and energy compare to teaching owners and dogs an actual behaviour, like the sit and the down.

A psychologist is not a mystic, most psychologists choose to address behaviour in order to assist their clients, and once the behaviours change, the thought processes follow. Psychology is also based on research and science, so that techniques in use by current professionals have the backing of clinical research that shows the efficacy of the treatment. Same with dog trainers, no?

Thanks for your very thought provoking article, and thanks to all who are chipping in to make our dogs' lives better.

There is nothing "deeper" or magical about what Cesar does. It can all be explained, and has been explained by the science of behavior.

I think that one of the misunderstandings of those who think Cesar is being "bashed" is their belief that the critics don't understand what he's doing or are jealous of his perceived success. The real trouble that some dog professionals have with the methods portrayed on the DW is that we DO completely understand what he is doing, how it is done and most could easily do the same the thing.

Any trainer worth their salt can shut down a dog with a quick word, look, hand signal or silly noise. That's not the point. The point is that if you know anything about behavior and learning, you know that shutting the dog down (which Cesar refers to as showing your dominance) doesn't provide the best results.

There is no argument that the methods on both shows can "work". You can get a dog to stop doing what he's doing by dominating him and making it clear that he has no choices. You can also choose to actually teach the dog what it is you want him to do and reinforce that alternative behavior.

The question is not about what works, but how we choose to get the results we want. Some people don't care either way. Others are interested in finding the least intrusive, minimally aversive route.

Easy to convince someone that your kicking is controlling the curtains if they, too, are unaware of the existence of the wind.

This topic has obviously prompted quite a bit of conversation, and perhaps touched some nerves as well. I'd like to thank everyone for the comments, both supportive and in disagreement, and for keeping the conversation civil. I believe that here at Dog Star Daily we can set the bar higher for discussing hot-button topics, so I encourage everyone to keep the discussion to methodology and facts, rather than personal attacks, either on Cesar or on those who disagree with his methods and choose to use others. That said, a few thoughts and responses:

First, I stand corrected about the video of the two dogs fighting in the DW show, if indeed it was a home video. It does seem likely that it might have been submitted as part of the application process, although I agree with the poster who said he/she wished there had been some sort of disclaimer urging people not to set up these situations for the benefit of the camera. I lecture around the world on the subject of canine behavior and make generous use of video in my seminars, but I will not set dogs up to potentially hurt each other or become extremely stressed for the sake of getting video footage. (For the record, nowhere did I say that NG or CM do this as a regular practice. I was referring to the one clip of the dogs fighting, which, upon review, does indeed appear to be taken with a home video camera.)

Regardless of which side of the debate you're on, there are facts about canine body language and behavior that are not a matter of opinion. A paw raise, for example. As stated, depending on the circumstance, it can be a play solicitation, an appeasement gesture, a sign of insecurity/anxiety, or for that matter, an offered behavior because the dog has been given a treat for performing "shake." But there is not one shred of scientific evidence, nor one ethologist who ever suggested that a raised front paw indicates the onset of aggressive behavior. A raised front paw causes the dog's body weight to shift slightly backward and to the side. As Cindy mentioned, a dog must be well balanced to lunge. In fact, the weight distribution of a dog just prior to a display of aggression is normally forward. This was a simple example of Cesar's misreading or misstating the dog's body language. Am I saying that he always misreads body language? Absolutely not.

The bigger point is the amount of misinformation being disseminated to the general public via the DW show. For example, I recall an episode where a dog was obsessively chasing a laser light. This type of behavior is clearly obsessive-compulsive, or at the least, a stereotippi (a strongly ingrained repetitive habit on its way to becoming an OCD, in the early stages where it can still be interrupted). Cesar, however, explained to the owners that the dog was trying to be dominant over the light. All dog behavior simply does not fit into a neat framework of dominance, and the way behavior is explained will directly influence how it is addressed.

Cesar consistently says that he is not a "dog trainer" but a "dog psychologist." However, if he is rehabilitating aggressive dogs by using behavior modification techniques, this puts him squarely in the same category as any other dog trainer/behaviorist who is rehabilitating aggressive dogs, albeit in some cases, with different methods. It's true that he's not a trainer in the sense of teaching dogs to sit, stay, come, etc. but neither are many trainers limited to that box. Many handle aggression cases, and yes, even "red zone" dogs, and call themselves trainers/behaviorists/behavior specialists, etc. I often hear Cesar's fans say, "But he's not a trainer" in response to a statement that his methodology or beliefs don't seem consistent with modern scientific training knowledge. Yet he is acting in the same capacity as a behavior specialist, and therefore should be held to the same standards.

On another point, it is absolutely true that in many ways we cannot compare human behavior and dog behavior. Leaving that comparison aside, the point made in the original post was that placing a dog who is aggressive toward another dog at home into a pack situation with unfamiliar dogs will not necessarily fix the problem with the dog at home. Of course it is not impossible for the pack approach to fix aggression toward unfamiliar dogs. I believe that in many cases it *would* get that dog behaving more calmly within that specific pack of dogs. Whether or not that can then be transferred to home life is the question, and remains to be seen, as dogs behave differently in different contexts. And therein lies the rub. No one is arguing that Cesar has good handling skills in many situations, or that he does not get many dogs behaving in the desired way -- for HIM. But as an experienced trainer and behavior specialist who has also worked with what would be termed "red zone dogs" for many years (my canine clients have included a large protection trained--badly protection trained, that is--German Shepherd who literally put a hole right through his 6'3" police officer owner's hand, a Catahoula/Chow mix who had multiply puncture wounded multiple people, just to name a few--and btw those dogs are "rehabbed" and still in their homes), I can tell you that the end goal must be for the dog to live safely within the owner's home, with the *owner* able to handle the dog. And calm, assertive energy is definitely an asset--but techniques that the owners can continue are a necessity as well.

As to the comment that the DogTown people get endless time to work with the dogs and Cesar doesn't so he must use other methods, there are ways to work with severely aggressive dogs in a timely manner and in a way that doesn't cause fights between dogs or people to get bitten (which I have seen plenty of on the DW show over the years). If so many trainers work with truly dangerous dogs and rehab them without being bitten, I wonder about the fact that Cesar gets bitten so often during these shows. If the answer is not that he's misreading the dogs (which I believe the popular consensus would be that he's not), I can only conclude that the methods themselves cause so much stress to the dog that the dog responds with aggression. And this is what television viewers are being shown. Saying that he is showing these bites as a cautionary measure is untrue; these are the methods he uses, for better or worse, and despite disclaimers not to try this at home, we all know that some people will. So we have two sides of the coin: working with the dog in a safe, gradual manner that does not cause undue stress to the dog, yet still solves the problem (and not in an inordinate amount of time, either), which is easily transferable to the owners; or the philosophy that dominance must be established over the dog, which sometimes means that the dog is pushed beyond its limits, resulting in people and other dogs being bitten, and the techniques and results not necessarily being transferrable to the owner.

All this talk of "whispering" and the natural behavior of dogs is interesting, and of course, any good trainer/behavior specialist understands canine body language and they way it relates to humans, and vice-versa. But part of what is being presented under this label is a technique called the alpha roll, where one lays the dog on its back to prove one's dominance. This technique originated with studies of wolves in the wild. Ethologists believed that one wolf would do this to another in a display of dominance. Through later studies, this theory was disproved. However, by then the information had made it into the popular culture and become a technique used in canine behavior modification. If one wolf rolls another on its back, he means to do that wolf damage. When you see one wolf rolling on its back for another, that wolf is rolling over *voluntarily*. There is a huge difference. In my 15-plus years working with wolves and wolfdogs, I have seen this myself many times. So the question is, what message are we sending when we do this to a dog? Will it prove that we are stronger? Yes. Is it without fallout? No. This technique creates stress in dogs, and worse, when owners try it they may get hurt. And on the topic of "whispering" and interacting with dogs in a natural way, I would honestly like to understand how the use of an e-collar fits into that paradigm.

A trainer friend who worked with a bull terrier told me that after her client had watched the DW show and seen Cesar do the alpha roll technique, she tried it herself. The dog bit her in the face. Could Cesar have done it? I have no doubt he could. But again, average pet owners are watching the show and despite the warnings, some will absolutely try the techniques. Regardless of the trainer, dog training (or psychology, if you prefer) shouldn't be about the dog trainer as guru. It should be about the trainer being able to teach people how to successfully work with their dogs. Again, calm, assertive energy is important; that concept of leadership has been around since the beginning of time, it's nothing new. But it's still only one part of the puzzle. Besides, not everyone will be able to achieve that state, regardless of how good the coaching is. And an aside, keeping tabs on a dog's arousal level, especially dogs whose arousal levels tend to escalate as quickly as those of pit bulls, is definitely advisable. But in the case of the pit bull showcased on the latest DW show, the people were advised that the dog must never, ever become at all aroused, even when playing ball. It just doesn't seem realistic.

Are there things that can be learned from the DW show? Sure. Dogs need more exercise, owners should be calm, assertive leaders, dogs behave better when they are in a calm state of mind. Are there things that can be learned by watching shows that advocate other techniques, such as DogTown or It's Me or the Dog? Absolutely. Behavior modification methods such as classical conditioning, desensitization and counterconditioning work well, do not cause undue stress if carried out properly, and transfer easily to owners in the home.

Blind devotion to a charismatic personality or specific methodology effectively stops the process of thinking for oneself and considering what is being presented in an objective light. It does not serve either side to summarily dismiss the techniques of the other without consideration, nor to be derisive about the person involved. Thank you for continuing this discussion with civility and respect.

When I am training my students in class and I hear "Shhh" I think "oh no" ! Ceasar! Oh boy! But when they are through with my class that is gone! You are absolutely right it is how we choose to get the the results we want!
Suzanne Flaherty
Partners for Life

Ahh, beauty of media. Funny isn’t it how those of us involved in the world of mass media - press, print ads, web and film can convince the public eye that a red apple is really green. Such an unfortunate truth.

Wilde says in her last posting “ I encourage everyone to keep the discussion to methodology and facts, rather than personal attacks.” ironic

Last year I was at a friend’s wedding. I was inquiring to the mother of the groom about juicy details of acquaintances we knew. She was not answering my questions. I then became speculative. She turned to me and said, “Well your just a little trouble maker aren’t you.” That really got under my skin, but made me sit back and appreciate people, things, life – as I understand it, from my experience. It made me be content with the underlying good that was apparent, and not make rumors.

Media is my career, I do understand it well. What I have learned from it and what remind myself of while being bombarded with all this literal and visual imagery is: 1.) You never know the full story. 2.) Most likely you never will. 3.) Generalize the situation – and take it for what its worth. 4.) Be a good and honest person. 5.) Set the example.

I think the underlying truth for both the Dog Whisperer and Dog Town is education. And, I’m pretty sure that the National Geographic’s philosophy as well… Giving you the information to chew on it as you please, and then juxtapose yourself to it – to define your place in this world.

Dog Trainers, specialists, psychologists – and all the animal people out there can critique the crap out of these two shows. But the bottom line is these shows have brought us education and awareness. They actually give you a little smile that there are actually people out there doing their best for the greater good with what resources they have. And that is what is important… It is our job as members of the media to lift these good people up with support and appreciation, not look for flaws - to make your self feel better for a moment.

Focus on what you want, not on what you don’t want.

Cesar is not perfect and I don’t think he claims he is. He does his best and I know he is constantly learning as well. He truly has done so much for pit bulls, and dogs as a whole – by way of basic animal education. By using Daddy as his front dog, he has countered the pit bull stigma that the media has created. So before anyone dissects his every little move – I suggest you look at the big picture and get a grip. Again – hes doing what he can, with what resources he has. At least he is doing something!

& To put any speculative creative minds to rest, I will tell you what you do not know in regards to the first dog fight you saw on the ‘Dueling Pit Bulls’ Episode.

(Background: Before we sent in our submission tape)
– In attempts of saving my relationship with Justin, I had agreed to give Trinity away. While we were screening for new owners, I saw that the Dog Whisperer was accepting submissions from southern California. I called Justin and said, “If Cesar can come can we keep Trinity?” – he said, “yeah, that’d be the only way.” – sarcastically..

– This was a Friday afternoon. I quickly made some phone calls to my HD film buddies and said we have to make this video and it needs to look good!! We shot on Sat. Edited on Sunday, Fedex’d it Monday. On that Monday night Justin came to the studio to watch the video and he was very touched by it. He then went back to his parents that night and found us a place to live in the country. A home on 13 acres so that we wouldn’t have to get rid of Trinity. He found that house, that night - online, and we moved in 5 days later.

– A few weeks later I get a call back from the producer at the Dog Whisperer. She told me they were interested in working with us. I told her –they are not fighting any more because we are out in the country with lots of space to run around.. (But YES – we still have to be careful, and they are still separated when they are in doors..)

– The producer then asked if I would film our ongoing story, our big move to the country, and show how the dogs were now getting along…

– I call back my film buddies and we shoot Part II… (By way of the Dog Whisperer involvement) I now understood that Cesar would help us with a ‘plan’ of getting them back to how they used to be… That is, - okay together in ‘every’ situation… So, we were actually done filming and chit chatting in the back yard - when Sandi found a stick, did a quick taunt to Trinity – and it was on. We ran to stop it but we just weren’t quick enough. Our friend with the camera – knew to shoot. He actually didn’t event have the camera on him when it started. He ran to get it, and that’s why the footage looks fumbled. – its what he does… As I am a photographer – if your not gonna jump in to stop it – you document it. & you don’t hear me screaming get the camera get the camera – do ya??? Come on people!!! The REASON why we grabbed their back legs is because that is a method we learned from Leerburg Dog training videos – for aggressive dogs. And it works. Before we knew this technique we had no full proof way of breaking up the fights. Before we knew this technique we both had been bit badly.

– One thing Justin and I knew for sure was that keeping them separated only made tension, and that is why we were constantly trying to put them back together. You don’t want to put your dogs in danger – but you do need to deal with your situation – keep trying to make it better! I didn’t really care if Trinity had a bunch of dog friends, I just needed her to be friends with Sandi again. It is really something when you have two dogs that are best friends for a long time; dogs that sleep together, play together, eat together, share toys – everything – and then just one day they don’t.

And that’s it - nothing more, nothing less.

And now the happy ending.
Of course its not perfect – what is?? We do our 40 min walks daily as a pack. They have play time together in the yard in the evening. And when we are chillin at home we all hang out together in the living room… That is our life. And yes, even now that my dogs are together there is a chance they will fight. Full recovery takes a very longtime – could even be their lifetime, but we are in it, using the tools we have, because we do love our pit bulls... And you know what – I know if I have some serious questions or problems arising that are bigger than us, Cesar – is not to big for us.. I’d know he’d help… The solution, not the big mystery of “what did Cesar really teach them?” - is to properly exercise your dogs; keep them calm - To not let them get to that level of “coo-coo for cocoa puffs!”; and to be aware of your animals: to be aware of the sign of a fight - to correct it before happening. That is what Cesar taught us.

My thoughts…
The abuse of children, elderly, disabled or animals – is INTOLERABLE to me.. NOTHING makes me more disgusted. The fact that you have entertained the IDEA to other people that we have set up the ‘dog fight’ for sensationalism, to get on the show – or however you phrased is just as disgusting as the deed itself. Putting that type of garbage in peoples heads is ridiculous. I know you do not know me, but if you did you would have no question in your mind about who I am, and what my motives are. My animals, being a humanitarian, a vegetarian, a conservationist, - equal rights activist – speaking up for those who do not have a voice is who I am..

I was so excited they showed the Dogtown episode next to our show – what a great parallel.. It was all incredibly hard to watch – I agree… But how does the world change if the world in ignorant? Answer me that. Maybe that is what you should have wrote about. And as far as ‘selling out’ goes – by over selling pit bulls – I hear that a lot from rescue groups.. I work for a rescue group, I worked for a vets office – and guess what – people don’t know!!.. People in the dog business know (and then there are those that get desensitized from it because its the world they are surrounded by), but the general public dislikes pit bulls and they don’t even know why! – not educated.. kudos Cesar and Dogtown.

PRACTICE CREATIVE (positive) ACTIVISM

MONICA HOOVER

Monica,

The picking apart of what public figures do on national television is in no way a venture away from the possibility of education, but rather a step toward it.

I am sure that there are certain principles of lighting, distance, angle, etc that go into making a fantastic photograph. In fact, I have browsed website message boards where photographers pick apart photos and dissect every aspect. They have long discussions about what would make the photo better, what they would have done, what looks amateur and what a professional would do differently. As a non-photographer, it would be silly for me to say, "Why can't you all just agree that it's a pretty picture?" That's really not the point, is it?

A huge part of what is missing when it comes to getting our information from mass media, be it dog training, politics or dieting, is critical thinking. I believe that's all this post and the follow-up comments are about.

It is dangerous, in dog training, politics or dieting, to blindly follow a self-appointed guru without checking to see that he/she has their facts straight.

You mentioned walking your dogs as a pack. I wonder what that means to you. Pack theory, as it's understood by the general public, has been proven false. There is nothing to prove that dogs, if they were pack animals, would consider us, another species, as part of their pack. So, are you walking as a family? Are you pretending that you and your dogs are wolves? What do you know about pack animals? How does that translate, specifically, into the way you walk your dogs?

What you said Cesar taught you is great. However, it is only the beginning. It is the kind of information that a training assistant or a savvy dog owner could teach you. There is MUCH more available to you.

If you have a Certified Pet Dog Trainer (go to apdt.com to find out) near you, it is possible that you could move beyond just managing the issues you have with your dogs and move toward actual rehabilitation.

I'm curious, as I didn't see this particular episode, how old the dogs are and how old they were when the trouble started. Do you know what happened at the board & train with the other trainer?

Did Cesar talk to you at all about desensitization and counter-conditioning? There are steps you can take toward actually changing the way your dogs feel about each other. It sounds like what he taught you was how to manage and control the situation, but not how to make real changes.

I personally didn't read Nicole's blog as an inflammatory piece. She did juxtapose the two shows, and clearly resonated with one more than the other, but that doesn't make her blog an insult or attack, but rather simply her opinion.

I do think discourse is a good thing. It helps people grow when done right, with the right language and intention. And I believe that was Nicole's intention to spark a conversation, to contrast the two shows shown back-to-back.

We don't have to agree on everything and disagreement doesn't have to come from jealousy or out of anger or disrespect.

The Dog Whisperer is a national television show and dogs are loved by so many people worldwide - it gets a lot of play! Of course the show will inspire conversation and difference of opinion. And that is okay, at least we are taking dog training and behavior on a national level.

I'd like to thank everyone for keeping on topic for the most part and for keeping the conversation respectful and educational, even in disagreement.

Kelly Gorman Dunbar
Editor, Dog Star Daily

I wasn't planning on posting any more on this thread but I wanted to respond to your comment, because I believe that you read my original statement in a light in which it was not intended. In the original blog, nowhere did I say that the dogs' owners set up the fight for the sake of the camera. In fact, what I had thought, before someone pointed out that the footage looked to be from a home video camera, was that the National Geographic Channel might have had something to do with it.

One poster commented that the scene was apparently filmed with a home video camera, and they wished there was a disclaimer urging people not to set up fights for the purpose of the video. I agreed that the show should have such a disclaimer, in case there are those who might be thinking of doing so. Again, I didn't think for a minute, "those horrid owners must have set this up." In fact, once the fact that it was home video footage was brought to light, I thought it was probably exactly as you said, that an unfortunate fight happened and someone grabbed the camera. Once again, for the record, I honestly did not mean to insinuate that you, the dog's owner, would set your own dogs up to fight with each other. (Btw I also never said that the method of separating the dogs was wrong, as it certainly wasn't--as you said, it definitely does work.)

I appreciate your honesty in relating how things are going with your dogs, and I am glad to hear that they are working out. It is incredibly difficult to live with dogs who may fight, especially when they have the potential for such damage, and I give you a lot of credit. I know how much effort that takes.

It's obvious that you have a good bond with Cesar and are happy with the results of working with him. This board is frequented by many dog trainers, and we talk a lot about training methods and techniques. What may be perceived as picking on Cesar is again, not about him personally, but about the methodology used. I realize you might not know this not being "inside" the dog training world, but there has been a huge divide between trainers using differing types of methodology, and it’s a hot topic. I can tell you that most posts I see regarding Cesar on other boards could only be described as either being written by those who think he's the greatest thing since Tivo, or those who think he's the devil. This blog was aimed at reporting what happened on both shows and to contrast them without going to either of those extremes.

I have done rescue work for the last 15 years, most of which was with a rescue center that focused on wolf hybrids and pit bulls (yes, an odd combination, but that's how it happened). I have done tons of pit bull education, and as I said, I was glad to see both shows saying the problem was not the breed but the individual dog. Changing the world's ignorance about dogs? I'm with you. Hopefully more television shows will do that. Goodness knows many of my own blogs and articles, such as the ones on puppy mills, early socialization and so on, have aimed to do just that.

Monica, you seem like a nice person who does good work, and I feel badly that what I wrote was taken that way. Hope this clears things up.

Peace,
Nicole

I thought it was a great post Nicole. I no longer watch DW due to the high cringe factor it gives me even though not everything he says is wrong. (exercise is excellent and they are dogs not people in fur coats)

My other question about the dogs would be to ask if a full thyroid panel had been done on both of them to see if that is a possible contributing factor in the sudden onset of their aggression towards each other. Anyone working with aggressive dogs should know about this link. If it is an underlying cause then all the b-mod in the world will only go so far. Of course age could also have been a factor. And one also wonders what happened at the other trainers place.

For those interested in learning more about how to read dogs body language I highly reccommend the DVD by Sarah Kalnajs called The Language of Dogs. (available on Dogwise.com)

Great post and interesting discussion. I only wish people would read and post back once they have cooled off if they read something that upsets them. Perhaps even re-reading before a reply to make sure they didn't misunderstand something. (reading fast when angry can mean missed information)

To the diehard DW fans I can only say, do your OWN independant research into the science of dog behavior. Then see if you are still a fan. Supression of behavior isn't modifying behavior for the long term. And though complusion methods do work, one would hope that they were employed with some fairness for the dog in question. Timing is everything. (at least the monks got that part right)

There are plenty of great books on the subject. Start with "Don't shoot the dog" by Karen Pryor, "The other end of the leash" by Patricia McConnell PhD and "Ex-Celerated Learning ~ Explaining how dogs learn and how best to teach them" by Pamela Reid PhD.

As a trainer that has used CM techniques in the past myself, I can say if you are open to really learning as much as you can about dog behavior you may be surprised with what you learn and how you feel about it. When you know better, you can do better. Real training, or changing dog behavior (under whatever label you want to give it) is about communication, not domination.

I don't believe CM is evil, just uneducated. As he openly admits. The good news is that can change. One can only hope.

Tail wags,
Marie Finnegan
K-9 Solutions Dog Training Inc.

The trouble with TV dog training is that it rarely does a thorough and simple job of teaching people steps and procedures. It usually has some drama or some form of “sexiness” as the media calls it. The big complaint about dog trainers who use scientific methods or positive et al is that we’re not sexy, that it is like watching paint dry. It is ironic how many shows on TV are about actual paint drying!

Attention spans of TV viewers are short and all of us are programmed to be on the edge of our seat by the cue music as well as the subject matter, the voice over, the editing. When I am consulting a client in my dog training facility they are immediately more attentive, when I am with a client in their home the dynamic shifts. Even if I am the one in charge teaching them how to train or modify the dog’s behavior they are still enveloped in a comfortable space, where they may not be as attentive as they need to be.

Television has created a culture of passive experts who learn things and experience things without consequence.
When it comes to dogs’ consequence is what drives behavior. When people do things to a sentient being; which dogs are, and the people have a false sense of security based in partial information built on gusto or confidence, things can go wrong. Fortunately for us dogs are by and large forgiving creatures and people get the message when they resort to aggression. The sad path of forcing a dog through things leads to sensitizing the dog, or the dog shutting down. Either way the results are iatrogenic, because we want dogs to feel as good as they possibly can. Because when it does go wrong it is not fun for the dogs and the humans.

You can “try stuff on your dog” all you want. Many times stopping a dog from exhibiting behavior is vastly different from teaching/training the dog or modifying its behavior with little or no fall out. In addition if you “think” your dog is trained you had better proof that training with as many contexts as possible. Believe anything you want, the truth is dog behavior is contextual.

The intentions and criteria of people play a huge role in implementing dog training. What is the target goal? Is it to make the human feel in control, partly, it should also be to make the dog feel good or as good as it can for whatever the training or B mod is.

When you go just on gut feeling alone, or use the results form one or two dogs, heck even if you use your results from years of results, it may not be enough. Dogs and the training of them is something that is done daily in the moment.

Dogs live in the moment – fact. Yet some people who acknowledge this fact ignore it with their beliefs about dog training and dog behavior. When you are honest with yourself as an educator of the public, you consider the safest and the most humane path towards helping dogs. Period. When you are transferring skills, like it or not that is what TV is doing. They can say all they want that you should not do this at home, but people are still “learning” as they are watching. Again it is not responsible if it is not safe & scientific.

Perhaps some other dog trainers envy the success of TV dog trainers. I for one do not care about fame from dog training. I was famous for years in the rock music scene. I’ve opened for Green day, Sublime, De La Soul, and host of others at festivals in excess of 10,000 ppl and played legendary clubs Like CBGB’s and House of Blues. I’ve been fortunate to know and work people such Jon Brion and Jeff Buckley. I was on the web making music and causing a stir way before it was a normal thing for people to do. I know full well what it is like to be loved, worshiped and hated by people all around the world who did not know me at all. They knew of me. So please take me out of that category of envy for others people fame through dog training. All fame equals is drama and stress. I leave a large part of music past out of my current biography because it will cloud the issue. People have short attention spans. I also want people to focus on what I am doing now both musically as well as my work with dogs. So don’t wonder why you won’t find it. It is left out by design.

After 9/11 which I saw go down first hand; as I stood at the dog park. Long story short I lost a lot, my whole life was gone, I left all I knew & worked for 6 days later. I am not the type to go the top forty routes or be in a wedding band etc. I jhad been walking dogs so I knew I could make a living at it. I am an artist and I require freedom. Dogs have afforded this to me as well as a way to make a good living and do some actual good in the world. I knew all along music is a selfish pursuit. I still love music andmake ons of it. I owe it all to dogs – period. Now you know where I am coming from.

I will help anyone help a dog, even people I do not like.

What I will not do is work with unscientific methodology, harmful or potentially harmful approaches to training or behavior modification. I will not work with people or align myself with agencies, groups or companies who consider themselves “dog training professionals” yet they cannot explain in both simple terms (for kids and clients and the general public) and scientific terms for dog trainers; how they are training and modifying dog behavior.

Many trainers give credit to the popularity of hiring a dog trainer to popularity of TV dog training. Perhaps, I do not have a before and after model to look at, but that has to do with marketing. One thing I do know is my dog training business has been on both coasts over 7 years and not once has it suffered financially. The reason is this- There are dogs out there and they need training. In addtion my wife & I know what we are doing both in a business capacity and a dog training and consulting paradigm.

It matters little how clients get to us, what matters greatly is how we sell, yes sell what we do and how we do it. As dog trainers you hold a dog’s life in the balance. People get rid of dogs for many reasons. Our target goal for all dogs; is to keep them in homes, make those homes as prepared as possible, offer support through email & phone correspondence and recommend follow up sessions.

What I find troubling is the amount of people who contact or hire us because “we tried a bunch of stuff we saw on TV, and it is not really working". Sort of trained dogs is not a good result. TV has the ability to wipe clean a very important part of the human brain, the part that allows us to be skeptical as a tool towards being more humane and more educated with the best ideas, not just the most popular ideas. TV makes people “feel”, it does not always make people “think”.

I will leave you with my favorite new quote.

“You can’t just make stuff up” – Barack Obama

Drayton Michaels CTC
www.pitbullguru.com

Isn't it true how people can make assumptions. Amazing how everyone has an opinion about Trinity and when her actual owner comes on to tell the TRUTH of her story, some of you still think you know the story better than she does.
If you actually watch the show weekly, you will understand that many times the reason Cesar is called in for help in the first place is aggression. Many of these people are at their wits end and either the dog is close to finding itself at a shelter or euthanized.
Thank GOODNESS you guys understand that you have to do whatever it takes to make things better. And what did you get in the process....balance in YOUR life. Not just a better dog. What I took away from this show is that Pit Bulls are amazingly loving dogs and YES they can be rehabilitated, and never ever underestimate the power of becoming a calmer, more balanced human being.

This Universe revolves around energy and what we give is what we get in return. It makes sense that if you portray confidence in a calm and peaceful manner, people will follow you because they trust you because you don't allow things to get out of hand. We like that. Well guess what...so do animals. Not just dogs but all animals. I like the comment that someone made about horses. If you use their language they get it. I know this as I worked around horses for years. You have to be calm in doing this. Monica, congratulations. The two of you went from living apart to growing together. And you gained the understanding of what it is to own a powerful breed and make it work peacefully. You learned how to handle situations as they arise and before they get out of hand. Good for you!!! I wish there were more people like you around to give this beautiful but misunderstood breed loving homes.

I'd love to have you speak at an event I'm working on for next year. Feel free to contact me if you have any interestand I'll tell you all about it! kenyaecho@yahoo.com

From Cesar's mouth...Whatever works, as long as it does not HURT the dog!!
Until then....Peace.
Jill

I enjoy watching Cesar Millan and am a big fan of his program and his approach to the dog-owner relationship. I enjoy seeing him take a family with a troubled dog and resolve conflicts so that the dog and the humans (and sometimes the cats) all function as one unit -- one pack, if you prefer. Cesar's approach is one on one and has to do with repairing the human-dog bond that has somehow been broken or threatened through lack of trust, lack of respect or lack of leadership.

Dogtown, on the other hand, takes dogs that have no "owner" and helps them find a place in the world, either with a family eventually or else with the other dogs of Dogtown, where they can live out their lives in an environment that provides them with nurturing human contact and as much dog-dog socialization as they can handle.

To my way of thinking, the two programs complement each other without being in true conflict. Yes, Cesar espouses a different approach from that of Dogtown -- but both approaches work within the context of the situation.

I enjoyed the juxtaposition of the Dog Whisperer episode with Trinity the pit bull and the Dogtown approach to the "Vicktory" dogs. Trinity is a pit bull that is obviously loved by its owners but not properly handled. Sometimes we take on dogs that are too much for us. I rescued a Plott Hound, never expecting to own a dog. But we couldn't say no to what the universe had put in our path -- and though it is hard for two semi-disabled "mature" women (i.e., old ladies :)) to handle a large scent hound, we have managed somehow to make it work to our mutual satisfaction. Our handling of Eve has been part Cesar, part positive training and part bullying by our cats so that Eve naturally defers to the cats and even has her own "kitten/puppy" that she has helped raise from a five-week old foundling. Perhaps we should have had a smaller dog in the best of all possible worlds, but this isn't that world and Eve is our responsibility and we do the best to make sure she is happy, she has a place in our household and the cats still rule the roost. (All is right with the world!)

For Dogtown, no one loved the Vick dogs until they came into the hands of Best Friends. And Dogtown is not really under a time limitation. The dogs are theirs for the rest of their lives and will get a home if they can be rehabilitated. The methods used by the people of Dogtown seem to be as varied as the people themselves, and the dogs are responding.

I say kudos to both Cesar and Dogtown for what they contribute to the welfare of animals and the people who love them. Those who allege that Cesar harms dogs are not really seeing what is happening. When children throw tantrums, they often harm themselves and sometimes need to be physically restrained so they don't hurt themselves further. And sometimes children just need to be tired out so they can finally finally listen to a better way.

I know that the positive/reward-based trainers have a lot to offer. So does Cesar. I also know that a degree is only as good as the paper it's written on. I have a degree in English and I know exactly what it's worth -- very little in today's market. What matters is what I do, now what a piece of paper says I know.

Cesar reminds me of my father -- a self-educated man. America is the land of self-educated individuals. My father was the smartest man I have ever known. Did he suffer because he only had a high school degree? Yes. Did he let it stop him? No! Did people who could look beyond the surface and see the man rather than the letters after his name (or lack thereof) find a brilliant man who was also a loyal friend? Most certainly.

There are many roads to learning. We put too much emphasis on only one, when we ought to count life experience as well.

I have certainly rambled all over the place, but I had a lot to touch on. I say the dogs of the world, especially the pit bulls of the world, need both Cesar and Dogtown, and BADRAP and the many other agencies and individuals who are devoting their lives to making the world a better place for dogs.

Jackie

Thank you Jackie for bringing this to light. What is wrong with being self-taught? There are people from thousands of professions who have been self educated and are well respected in their communities. They have gone on to be successful business owners and professionals who know so much about a particular subject that people flock to them for answers and education. These people got there by studying and years of experience. In my opinion many times life experience is the best experience. It's about passion.

There are tons of books written on dog behavior. If you study one particular animal for years and read many many books journaling the behavior of that animal and put it into practice in your daily life, why does having a "certificate" make it better? Because someone watched you and said, yep, you're doing it right? This is what college students do everyday. They study and practice. I don't necessarily feel you need a school to study and practice. But hey, if that's what you want then more power to you.

There is more than one way to do anything. What really bothers me is that it's ok to disagree. This is America. But to put forth your energies to push someone down is another. What works for one, does not work for everyone.

Jill

I agree that one can be self-educated, but self-educated and correct aren’t necessarily the same thing. Cesar doesn’t have a formal education in dogs, so in that sense, yes he is self-educated. However, that doesn’t mean he is correctly informed, and I think that is a distinction that needs to be made. No matter what made up terminology one uses, a spade is still a spade, and you can’t escape science. When Cesar gets a dog to change their behavior, it’s not because he proved his “dominance” (an idea that is not even falsifiable), or sent out various forms of energy. It’s because of operant conditioning, and the 2 quadrants he’s almost always in are positive punishment and negative reinforcement. Self-educated or not, his methods are largely based on 1940s wolf captivity studies, the results of which were proven to be false decades ago. I 100% absolutely agree that a piece of paper doesn’t make someone an expert, and the lack of one doesn’t mean they are not an expert. But this is a case where one’s self education is primarily based in 70 year old myths and misunderstandings, and experiences with outdoor dogs growing up. One reason a lot of trainers have a problem with this show regardless of whether they approve of his methods or not, is because he does not call a spade a spade, and this is something that a large part of the viewing audience has no clue about. I am not of fan of aversive methods but I would have more respect for someone who says “yes, I use positive punishment, negative reinforcement, and flooding, and the dog’s behavior is changing because of x, y, and z” as oppose to someone who is using those methods and calling it something entirely different, and using made up terminology to support their own understanding of dogs. I think Cindy’s example of the baby kicking and the curtain moving sums this idea up perfectly. It’s a matter of science, and cause and effect.

May I say that Nicole's posts come across as clear, concise, fair-minded and professional. Further, of all the discussions on The National Geographic program, Dog Whisperer that I've read over the years, this Dog Star string was the most informative, civil and knowlegable.

The "spare the rod, spoil the child" debate, as well as the "do the ends justify the means" discussions ... that is, whether an educational methodology should be rooted in physical punishment and force or be primarily reward-based ... have been around for ages and will continue to be dissected for centuries to come. People choose the methodology that dove-tails with their own belief system ... and they (and their dogs)experience the positive and negative behavioral consequences of the one they've chosen. This Dog Star discussion highlighted these concepts perfectly. Truly a great job.
Paul Owens, author, The Dog Whisperer, A Compassionate, Nonviolent Approach to Dog Training (1999) and The Puppy Whisperer (2007).

Wow Nicole, your post really got people going! good post, like it alot.

I have to say that I have been a trainer (though in todays world, what the heck is that? apparently you can call yourself whatever you want....I do more then obedience train dogs so maybe I'm no longer a trainer...behaviorist? no you have to have a degree for that. Maybe I"m a dog psychologist, apparently you can just one day decide you're one of those and VOILA...whatever it is people want to call me, while I do some obedience training, mostly I go into people's homes and help them fix their dogs. I've been doing it the majority of my life, worked with my first aggressive doberman in 1985 and have focused on aggression ever since. I think it's funny that I used many of the techniques that CM does, over 20 years ago...and yet because he brought it to television, he must be the first of his kind. Heck MOST trainers that started out over a decade ago started by using many of the same techniques that CM is using currently. If you don't believe me, ask many of the trainers that were around then (you were weren't you NIcole?)The difference is, most of us have found newer ways of doing things. Meaning, ways that have a lasting effect on the dogs we work with, even when we're out of the picture. Did the old ways work? sure they did. That's why we did it that way in the first place. But training has evolved. That is where so many trainers find fault with Cesars actual techniques (please note, I did not say they find fault with Cesar himself). We DO know what he is doing. I think many people think that those that disagree with his methods do so because we don't understand what he's doing or are jealous (as was stated in an earlier comment). But that's where they're wrong. As was stated earlier, we DO know. I know exactly what he's doing and why he's doing it when I've seen him do something on his show. I know what it's going to look like on television, and I also know what will happen much later when his "energy" (or as other trainers have called it "presence" since long before CM came on the scene) is gone to keep tabs on the "squelching".

What Cesar does is squelch the behavior. Any trainer/behaviorist/psychologist whatever the heck you want to call them can squelch a behavior and make it appear resolved. Especially those that have done it in the past. It makes for beautiful television because to most people, the behavior looks like it is gone. The problem is, the underlying CAUSE of the behavior is not gone. The dog still feels the same way, but is acting different. It is like how you might drive on the highway when no cop is around, vs when you see the black and white sitting there. Most people drive a little differently. Change the need to speed and the black and white would not need to sit there.

I remember watching an episode, dont' recall which one, but there was a dog who was acting aggressively towards the owners mother in law. Cesar used his presence and squelched the behavior. The problem looked resolved, and the dog stopped showing aggressive tendencies. The problem was, the dog still FELT aggressive towards the mother in law. You could see it in the dogs body language. At the end of the episode everyone was oooing and awwwing that the dog was fixed and now liked the mother in law, and she started to reach towards the dog, but cesar sort of stepped in between. Why? I honestly believe that dog would have bit or at least made some attempt at her because he still did not like her. what is going to happen when he is no longer there? If a problem comes up, more then likely it was "their fault because they didn't keep dominance". But isn't it the job of the professional to do things in a way that allow for the OWNER to maintain the good behavior?

Cesar has impeccable timing. He can get away with things with dogs that many of us could get away with if we so chose to. But the general public does not do this day in and day out for a living throughout their lifetime and so they need to be taught a way to handle the situation in a way that works for THEM. NOT just the trainer/psychologist or whatever.

I am not totally anti Cesar as many trainers are. I love that he brought the idea to light that bad behavior (aggression in particular) can be rehabilitated. Was he the first to do it? Most definitely not. Was he the first to do it using the methods he seems to think are entirely his own? MOST definitely not. (using a good pack to fix behaviors between dogs has been used for many years as well, same with the alpha roll though I know he calls it something different. Even shhhh was being used as an interupter before.) He is simply the first to do it on national television. And as far as worrying about knocking him because he is self taught, well that's ridiculous. Most dog pros (maybe that's the best term since nobody can seem to find out what the heck a dog psychologist is) that started that long ago didnt' have a school to go TO. You learned hands on on the job, apprenticing under other trainers, attended seminars and read everything you could get your hands on, and then you lived and breathed dogs. NOW there are so many different venues open to people who want to become trainers, but anybody from that time usually WAS self taught. There's nothing wrong with it, as long as one recognizes their need to continue to learn, and realizes the need to change as more knowledge becomes available. That's the point. The old ways still have some good points to them, but if you CAN do things that make it easier for the dog and handler, why cling to the old ways? Certificates and the like show a trainers willingness to train to a standard.

I like Cesar in some ways in that he taught people about the need to exercise their dogs, and to be a solid leader (note I didn't say ALPHA). He teaches about structure and discipline and the need to learn body language. I can't agree with him on all, I disagree with HOW he does it, but at least I agree that what he has done is valuable to our industry in that he made it public knowledge. Before he came onto the scene when people asked me what I did for a living and I told them, they all thought I was strange, nobody had ever heard of a dog trainer. Now at least it seems to be a reputable career choice. I understand what he is doing it and why he is doing it, and no I"m not jealous. I've been making a living doing what I love for long enough, and I can walk a middle road...I train using a lot of positive motivation but I am by no means a PURELY positive trainer. No need to be jealous over someone that can do well in the industry I've loved for so many years. But I DO have to say I don't always agree with Cesars methods. Maybe in some cases I do, but I DON"T agree that it's such a great idea to put those methods onto television where sooo many people regardless of warnings to the contrary will try them on the wrong dogs in the wrong situations and end up with bad results.

Cesar has done a good job at protecting himself though. If he's not a trainer, then he can do whatever style he likes because he's kind of the first of his "kind" (though as I said, what the heck that means I don't know...he is doing what loads of other pet pros have been doing so what the heck does that make us?) and nobody can call him on it. If he does something that works on television brilliant. If it doesn't work later, he can blame it on the owners because they aren't doing it right and then he can come off as magical. Guy can't go wrong this way, he wins whether the dog is fixed or not.. But how does that help the dogs? If the point is to do no harm, well, how does one define harm? The dogs would be better served by doing more then trying to do no harm, but rather by making an effort to actually change their perceptions and fix the underlying cause, then transferring that skill to the owners who have to live with the dogs beyond a television show.

I have to admit I have learned some things from CM's ways of dealing with clients though! He IS charismatic and calm and sometimes it does make it easier to refer to his persona when trying to explain to someone how to hold themselves...but there's so much more to the story then much of what he does.

Lynne

Hi there - A few things stood out to me reading the posts here - firstly I am a trained dog psychologist and behaviourist and not an obedience dog trainer! I am also an owner of 13 dogs who have in the past fought - we had inter-male and inter-female fights. My pack has 8 Terriers - not well known for their ability to get along in a pack. What I learned from Cesar is that all the formal learning in the world cannot help if human's instincts and energy aren't in tune with animals - dogs. How right he was - once I started to follow his philosophy the fights stopped - not one single incident for over a year now. My dogs are not trained - we live and work as a pack - we have structure and hierarchy led by us humans - it really was the simple, a long process of rehab but not techically difficult - I used no tools as such - just read their communication and corrected using vocal sounds e.g. pssht as Cesar does, then redirected their behaviour, as Cesar does I made the rules and showed them what behaviour was not acceptable, exercised them together, the discipline then affection -- it worked - They now all live together - never separated even when I am not here - no fights! My Terriers still have their spirit, as do my larger Doberman and Gt Danes, they are my balanced followers.

So Yes I know the "correct" terminology...I use various methods in my work (any way that does not harm the dog is good) but in my pack the key change was undoubtably my energy and instinct - else why did my formal training in the use of operant/classical conditioning, counter conditioning, C.A.T. and flooding etc not work before to stop the fighting ?? Because the fights were over status - I took over as Pack Leader Cesar's Way and no fights, my clinets are experiencing exactly the same with inter-pack fights - successful rehab without having to rehome one of their dogs.

As for body language - every dog is an individual - I do not believe that as a different speicies we can begin to say that we can "read" exactly what each dog means by say lifting a front paw even if we have studied hundreds of dogs - so much more is involved than just lifting the paw! With my Fox T who was other dog aggressive he would definately lift the front paw immediately prior to attack - I saw it he did!

As for do they live in a pack - mine do, I have seen my Terriers "pack-up", I have seen my whole pack work together using their instincts for the good of the pack. So Yes - here are 13 living in proof.

For me I try not to judge - I cannot claim to know or understand everything or indeed all about anyone, but judging seems like unstable human behaviour which I prefer to avoid. I just believe what I see for myself, I see a pack of 13 dogs who no longer fight rather they live together, sleep tpgether, play together and follow my lead without leads! - for me that is Cesar's Way, I don't like to over-analyse - it works and that's enough for me and my pack.

Good wishes to all from here in the UK, Suzie.

Tia Maria Torres
Villalobos Rescue Center
www.vrcpitbull.com
www.myspace.com/vrc_pitbull

Let me introduce myself. We are the largest Pit Bull facility in the country. We do rescue, rehab, boarding, training and adoptions. So I guess you could say we are Pit Bull Grand Central, 24/7. We are also the contracted trainers for L.A. City Animal Services where for the past 9 years we have been conducting an all Pit Bull training academy to the public in addition to being expert consultants for various court cases and hearings. We are serious Pit Bull people. That being said, I was shocked, dumbfounded and horrified at the Dueling Pit Bulls episode on the DW. Though at first Cesar did say some pretty good things about the breed, he never addressed some of the obvious that any and all Pit Bull owners should know. I mean Pit Bull 101....two female Pit Bulls is "usually" a guaranteed dog fight. Okay before everyone jumps back in with "my two female Pit Bulls dont' fight"......I said USUALLY it means a fight. I would have to say that 80% of my calls/emails of "my two Pit Bulls are fighting" are female to female. So that would've been the first issue at hand in our book. But what I felt was unreal was watching CM force Trinity into a pack of dogs, no collars, no leashes and from what I saw not enough supervision and "hands on deck". He claims to have control of his pack. Really? Then why was there a fight? Why in the background did we see other dogs re-direct on each other? People are supposed to feel at ease that their dog is going off for boarding and training in a responsible and safe place. Hell, when we send our kids off to school, don't we expect that school to keep our kids safe? Can you imagine if Junior or little Sally came home every day with cuts and black eyes because the teachers told them to "work it out"? I belong to a very very large Pit Bull group and they are horrified as to what CM forced Trinity to endure. In all of our 15 years of being in business we have NEVER EVER EVER had a client's dog injured. And we always have approx. 200 Pit Bulls on hand! I would like to pose the question here on this board. For those that have training facilities, have any of you ever had your client's dog injured to this extent? This wasn't just a case of a dog "biting" another dog. This was a mauling and we saw what two, three fights? Let's make this simple. Without bickering back and forth about CM's training tactics. Without deciding whether he knows what he's doing, etc. There is one fact that is absolutely without arguement. Dogs got hurt. Really hurt. It's one thing if it were an "accident" but the dogs were deliberately put into a situation by CM. Millions of viewers saw the blood and the puncture wounds. These are the same injuries I've seen in illegal dog fighting. As a matter a fact, my daughter walked into the room while the pack fight was going on and she thought it was a documentary on illegal dog fighting. To Trinity's Mom...kiddo, you had it right the first time. You didn't need CM. You and your family were handling things just fine and like true Pit Bull people. CM could learn a few things from you.

Why does everyone keep comparing kids in a situation, to dogs in the same situation? People and dogs are not the same thing. You are humanizing the dogs. They don't think the same way. I am not a dog trainer, but I have many, many dogs and have for most of my life. I see with my own eyes everyday that the dogs are different around every person that comes around them. If you watch Cesar, you see these spoiled, uncontrolled dogs running these peoples' lives, because they don't have the sense to realize it is a dog, not a human. "He won't eat if he doesn't get steak", "We can't have visitors because the dog won't let us". Seriously! Anyone who can't see it is the people who allow the dogs to be the way they are- doesn't know what is really going on. Cesar KNOWS it is the people.

Nicole, I enjoyed reading your blog. I agree, it is good to see other techniques of training on TV and you did a great job pointing out the differences!

I for one think that no “one way technique” of training works on every dog or even every situation. As far as the Dogtown, and the one “fighting” scene. I have to wonder if they edited out more scenes where there was fighting. We must remember these shows are edited and we don’t see the entire “behind the scenes” part. I’m sure most of you remember all of the editing going on during the elections where the media edited statements out of context. Dogtown is making a show to support the rehabbing of Pit Bulls, it would not be in their best interest to show bad fighting scenes or show dogs that are not responding to this technique. I’m just one of those people that tends to not believe everything I see on TV, (much less what I read in the newspaper. I live by the statement “believe nothing of what you hear and half of what you see.” ;-)

- Just my 2Cents

As far as the Pit Bulls go, I think its great people are working with the dogs and I hope they all find loving homes! They certainly deserve it!

The behaviour of the dogs on that program is not shocking to me, it's his methods that I don't understand. Why he would choose to apply them when there's something that much more fun out there.

I think if CM or Trinity's family have a chance to try Ian's or Nicole's methods, it would be an interesting experiment to see what they think? See what they learn?

My dogs, including the fosters over the years, all have worked through some sort of anxiety. Fear based, lack of emotional control, one sort of anxiety or another. All of them, at one time, have expressed themselves through growling, snarling, lunging, biting (minor punctures from fosters without great bite inhibition) and pretty scary displays. We've worked through all their anxieties using method's this site is rich with, so I can attest to the effectiveness. The best part is that there have been some pretty cool side effects from this training of my dogs offering up behaviours that we've put on cue to add to their bag of tricks.

I know other CM trained dogs and there is a difference in the dog's behaviour repertoire. Here is one I difference I came across recently.

A friend said she wanted to teach her CM trained dog how to retrieve the phone when it rings...I said "it's easy!" I picked up the phone and showed it to her dog and said to "take it", expecting her dog to happily take it in her mouth. Instead her dog backed away from it and my friend said her dog 'knows' not to touch the phone....well then how do you teach a dog to retrieve something if it's afraid to touch it? If she used Ian's methods.......her dog would not be afraid to touch something. This is where I saw our training methods differed.

My dog Daizy is a beagle, not a natural retriever, who learnt to retrieve and give things to me, puts them in my hand (in exchange for a treat) from being a mischievous puppy. She used to pick up slippers, newspapers, socks, toast from the table....list goes on and on!

Instead of squashing her for picking something up, I rewarded her for giving it to me. Now if I ask her to pick something up, and bring it to me, she does so with the biggest bum wiggle! It also is very helpful when I don't feel like bending down to pick something up, or drop laundry along the way to the washer :)

I don't have a list of credentials but I did search out trainers who do. Alice, Rita and Delores at Dogsmart are my trainers, and cheerleaders.

Their classes are filled with laughter, humor, warmth and sobering science to back their quick and simple techniques (ie. Premack principal, animal learning theory, reward based training methods, treats, games, snuggles...) and we have a blast! It feels so good inside when my dogs start tap dancing when I say we're going to puppy class.

It's also mind blowing to know what's possible to teach them once you get the hang of this theory. We shock people everywhere we go with the kinds of tricks we do in the name of training. We've come so far over the years with our dogs and our fosters and have had so much fun that it's hard not to wish the same for everyone.

Here's to wishing all those CM fans the very best and secretly hoping that they will seek to enhance their training skills by just trying one of these classes for the heck of it. It can't hurt, and at the very least you'll have fun.

cheers,

Kate and her rebels with a clue crew :)

The one difference of horse whispering and dog whispering.... horses are a prey animal and dogs are a predator animal. Horses are one of the few prey animals whose main mode of defense is FLIGHT. Horses are also one of the most intelligent body language readers. I meet a horse whisperer who showed how easily influenced by body language horses are to the point you can get a wild horse to come to you and allow itself to be ridden in less then 4 hours! How many wild dogs can you walk on leash int hat amount of time?
Also if most of our information is based on wild animals who lives depend on the least amount of effort in order to conserve energy for survival.. how does that translate to domesticated animals who have too much energy because the average pet parent makes their life too easy? WHat studies have been done on domesticated dogs?
I'm not saying your points aren't valid but I like to know of the studies and proof there is out there. I'm that kind of person who likes scientific studies to back opinions.
There is also the fact that I took on my job as a dog trainer to train people on how to better their communication skills with their dogs. Isn't that what we're suppose to do? Educate people on how to be a better pet parent? It's easy to say they are the problem for their dogs behavior (though I know of a few dogs that actually have medical issues and require medication- why think being crazy is limited to humans? especially with how much tampering genetically we've done to dogs) but we also have the opportunity to change that. I'd like to think that we can and will change the public perception of what is capable in being able to train/help and improve animals lives with us.

Great thread and wonderful original post Nicole.

I only want to say a couple of things, trying to keep from repeating too much.

The criticism of using comparative analogies as being "treating dogs like humans" is a common one. From what I have read here, the analogies are not excessive anthropormorphism at all, but are logical connections used to enhance comprehension of the concepts involved. Yes, dogs are not humans and conversely, humans are not dogs..That being said, both species are social animals, mammals and have very similar brains and neuro chemistry therefore many (but not all) analogies related to social order or to emotion can be safely used without too much distortion. To assume that dogs do not relate to threats or intimidation in the same way people do is wrong. The limbic system works the same way in all animals, the flight or fight response being the big thing. In these cases comparing the reaction or possible emotions in dogs to humans in a threatening situation is acceptable. Treating dogs like dogs is certainly a good thing, respecting their drives and finding ways to fulfill their canine needs is a great thing, but assuming they cannot relate to us or us to them on any other level is unfair to the dogs and to us.

As to "energy", I am a certified Reiki practitioner and I certainly agree energy or intent as we call it can be a powerful asset in any situation we find ourselves in. But the energy itself is not the "magic key"...all it does is open up the opportunity for learning, for mediation, for communication. The skills that go along with the energy are what enables change.

I do have to also address the education/non education conundrum. I too have only a high school education. I too, after working with dogs as a walker for many years, found myself drawn to Cesar and his methods. I have all three seasons on DVD, I have both "Cesar's Way" and "Be a Pack Leader". I became a voracious reader and found many great books on behaviour and body language and learning theory and found myself turning away from his teaching methods. I now use his DVDs as a way to show people what calming signals are, how dogs show extreme stress and then hand them a book list that includes Turid Rugaas, Patricia McConnell, Jean Donaldson and the like. I have the opportunity every day with my dogwalking and my training to see everything that is harmful in CM's "way" and to positively reinforce myself by achieving things I never would have managed if I had stayed on his path. Both my dogs and myself have benefited in ways I could never have imagined.

Maggi Burtt
Tailspin Petworx

If it does, its time to pull the dirt over the top & be done with it. I have 6 years of College & more formal training after that. I knew little of use in the real world. I never learned so much so quickly as after I was out in the real world. Formal education is a great base to build upon. It is the bus ticket to get on. Where you go on that bus is what you do after the formal education. The more you learn the more you come to understand that you know so little. Learning Should Never Stop.
L.A.

I just watched the Dueling Pit Bulls episode and found it fascinating. I am glad that this blog and its readers are interested in dog training. If I may point out, Mr. Millan very clearly states  that he is in favor of dog training but says that he is not a trainer and does not train dogs, he rehabilitates them (and trains the owners). He showed this distinction very nicely in the episode about Wilshire in the Wilshire Blvd Firehouse. He worked on correcting certain followership behaviors to keep Wilshire safe and obedient but when he needed to be trained to exhibit certain behaviors in a classroom Cesar called in a trainer to do that and showed the distinction between training and rehabilitation. Personally, I have been learning and applying Cesar's philosophy to my pound pooch Sadie (who had some issues for which we had a great trainer deal with Sadie's fear around being kept in a cage, taught her to not bite, and how to behave when meeting people, but had no success with certain barking and leash pulling behaviors), my neighbors' troublesome barking pit bulls, and my brother's two pit bulls and one chocolate lab who have to be kept separate in their house. The results I have had are quite remarkable and perfectly consistent with what I have gleaned from the DW episodes. I totally don't understand how this approach can be described as "punishing and intimidating" when it is actually about me being centered and calm and assertive. Perhaps it is the same confusion some humans have between someone treating them aggressively vs. assertively, two very different states that appear the same to some people. Lastly, Cesar points out over and over in the episodes and quite thoroughly in his Dog Psychology DVD that dogs are animals first and have their own psychology, one that is different than human psychology. He points out that confusing human psychology with dog psychology leads to problems. I concur. A horse whisperer I know operates from the same perspective with remarkable results (and ironcially totally cannot work with dogs). I, therefore, find it confusing and somewhat inappropriate that Nicole and many of the commentors use analogies regarding how humans would behave under certain circumstances with how dogs should behave. Confusing training with rehab and human responses with dog responses are two of Cesar Millan's main points as to what causes problems in dogs. Interesting, my wife has had difficulty making these distinctions and her experience with our pooch, Sadie, continues to be ineffective and inconsistant compared with mine. Sadie picks up the difference immediately when she walks in the room. Because she has been unable to modify her own behavior to develop effective DW skills in being a pack leader, she finally decided to use a training approach to work with Sadie.  I am OK with this path for her since it works better for her, but I object to her when she chooses to criticize Cesar Millan because of her shortcomings in developing specific skills (e.g., how to walk Sadie).  I suspect that some of the reader's of this blog find it hard, as do many of Cesar's clients in the episodes, to change their behaviors to effectively apply his techniques. There is nothing wrong with not being able to learn certain skills as we all have different intelligences and capabilities (e.g., I have great difficulty with playing music and foreign languages). I, however, find it unseemly to criticize Millan's approach due to a possible lack of personal mastery. For me applying the Millan basics with dogs on the street or in friend's houses--No Look, No Talk, No Touch--can bring about an almost magical response, one that is certainly not based on intimidating or punishing, two things strangers or friends would never allow from me. Thanks for keeping an open mind.

Excellent and thought provoking article Nicole. For many dog owners who have been sitting on the fence as far as what training philosophy to initiate, articles such as your well written piece will go far towards guiding people to lean towards the more positive approach. For the rest, not so much, and that is surely a shame.

That the media is complicit in promulgating what I consider cruel and punitive modalities of dog training is inexcusable IMHO. My sense of it is that Caesar Milan is a good person spreading a false and dangerous gospel.

Thanks for posting this. I've been watching both shows, and I find it very interesting to compare the two. I would love to see Caesar on an episode of Dogtown, but I don't think I'll ever get to see that.

There are obvious differences in the methods employed by Dog Town and Dog Whisperer, but I thought you comment relating to putting a dog aggressive dog into a pack being bad was was not very well thought out. First of all, it's natural it's how pack animals communicate, if you're saying that it's not right, you're are disagreeing with nature. That said, it should always be supervised, which it is on DW. Yes maybe the dogs get into small fights sometimes, but there is rarely any real harm done and it provides Caesar with an opportunity to address the negative behavior.

Furthermore, your comment comparing dogs and troubled teens doesn't make a whole lot of sense. First of all, dogs aren't people and they don't think and act like people, so a comparison is misleading and useless. Secondly, if you had to make a comparison, the equivalent situation would be taking a troubled teen in a bad environment aka a bad home or no home or a gang, removing them from that situation and placing them in the company of well adjusted successful teens, in a way that doesn't ostracize them. Not putting them in a street gang! If you place a bad student around all good students and take away his bad influences and opportunities to slack off, he will more often than not improve and start acting more like his/her peer group. This is the same philosophy with bringing dogs into Caesar's pack. You improve their peer group and environment the dog will improve.