WHY DO PEOPLE USE THESE TOOLS?
In my own practice, I don't condone the use of coercive training tools like prong collars, choke collars, and shock collars. My experience and education has led me to the conclusion that such tools are not necessary and that at best, they are a band-aid and at worst, they are fraught with side effects, often worsening the problems they were supposed to correct.
Sometimes, a client seeks my help and they are currently using one or more of these tools with their dog. It's important that we as trainers don't judge these clients. The more time a client feels they have to spend defending themselves, the less brainpower they can dedicate to learning a better way. It's not a good feeling to have a professional tell you, "You're doing everything wrong." Also, it makes you look like a jerk, which really isn't good PR for any training business. You want your clients to leave a session feeling hopeful and optimistic, not shameful and guilty and embarrassed. You want to set the learner up for ultimate training success, which means she must be comfortable confiding in you about training mistakes she's made/making and difficulties or setbacks she is experiencing. This information is critical to your ability to continually reevaluate, improve upon, and maximize efficiency for your training plan.
It is my honest belief that anyone who seeks professional assistance for a canine behavior problem really does love their dog and is doing the best they can with the information they have available to them. If they didn't care, Fido would end up as so many other uncared for, unwanted dogs - discarded and disposed of in one of the nation's many overcrowded shelters or rescue, too often awaiting a euthanasia needle. If you start the consulting relationship truly believing your client has been doing the best they could, it really helps pave the way to a nice, open line of communication between you and your client, an element vital to the rehabilitation process.
I am a crossover trainer, which means there was a time when my own dogs wore prong collars and received "leash pops." When I first "crossed over" I felt horribly guilty for having used prongs on my dogs when I learned about the side effects and wisened up to canine body language. Why did I use these tools? Because it was the best I knew how to do with the information, resources, and skills available to me. I honestly didn't have a single clue that there was another way to modify Monte's aggressive behavior. I am not a stupid person, nor would I ever dream of being cruel to an animal. I was guilty of ignorance, but not cruelty, not stupidity, not animal abuse.
People that choose to use these tools with their own dogs are, by and large, not stupid, cruel, animal abusers (although obviously there are some exceptions!) but are for the most part dog lovers who know no alternative, better, effective way of training. Maybe a friend suggested the collar after having great success with his own dog. Maybe a trainer recommended it to them. Maybe they had trained previous dogs successfully using the collar and finally met a dog whose behavior did actually worsen, rather than improve. Maybe they watch too many dog training shows on television.
In retrospect, I am somewhat glad I had the experience of using traditional training techniques, not for my dogs' sake (sorry guys!) but for my clients' sake - it is easy to be empathetic with clients who are making the same mistakes I made.
When working with a client who is new to positive training and just beginning to crossover, it is wise to anticipate and plan for the likelihood of some extinction bursts. I certainly had my fair share of extinction bursts when I first traded in my prong collars for a clicker. When I came to realize all of the things I had done were incorrect, and worsened the problem at hand, I felt guilty, frustrated, and embarrassed. I made excuses to make myself feel better, one of which has reverberated throughout my work with other pet dog trainers who are exploring a whole new world of dog training..."But my dog LOVES her prong collar! Every time I get it out, her tail starts wagging with excitement!"
DO DOGS REALLY LOVE PRONG COLLARS?
I have, in fact, seen many dogs respond to the presentation of a prong collar or shock collar with happy, loose body language. Despite this, I don't believe I've yet met a dog who loves these tools.
Virtually every dog loves going for a walk. Dogs that respond with joy at the presentation of a shock, choke, or prong collar are probably not excited about the collar itself but what the collar has come to predict - walkies, time out of the house, opportunities to engage with the environment. In other words, the reinforcement value of the walk is more salient to the dog than the punishment value of the aversive collar.
Classical conditioning has taken place here and as we all know is very powerful in changing emotions and associations. We use classical conditioning all the time to teach fearful dogs, for instance, that the things they are afraid of are instead predictors of wonderful things. In the case of a prong, choke, or shock collar, the dog has been classically conditioned - each time the stimulus (collar) is presented, it is immediately followed by a potent reinforcer (walkies!), generally on a one-to-one ratio. Collar predicts walks, every time. Often, the appearance of the collar is the most salient predictor of what is for most dogs the most powerful reinforcer - getting out into fresh air with their handler. There is an element of Premack to the scenario...if you do this less probable/favored thing (get your prong collar on), you will then have the opportunity to do this more probable/favored thing (walkies). Powerful learning is at play here!
As a human example, I'll tell you that there are few things I hate more than being out in the cold in below zero windchills for extended periods of time - the kind of cold that makes your bones numb and your fingers, nose, and toes ache when they are finally brought into warmth/allowed to thaw. I hate it. It's an awful, uncomfortable feeling, and I would much rather be curled up with a dog or cat and a good book in front of a roaring fire.
Two of my favorite things in the world are being out in the woods and spending time with Jim (husband and super IT guy), Mokie and Monte. Since my husband and I often work opposing schedules (he works days, I teach at night), I don't get to spend as much time with this wonderful man as I'd like. The deprivation of quality time together that Jim and I often face leads me to find the opportunity to spend time together incredibly reinforcing to me.
Yesterday was one of those yuck days. It was cold and nasty outside, and I didn't want to go out and end up a Caseycicle. I had to run an errand for a colleague, so I knew I was going to have to go out in the cold and was dreading it. Then Jim decided to join me, and bring the dogs along for a hike through the woods. Suddenly, the thing I'd been dreading (going out in the cold) became an exciting prospect (hiking through the woods with the family)!
Does this now mean I love the cold? Absolutely not. I still hate it just as much as I did yesterday, and I'll probably still hate it and dream of warmer climates tomorrow.
I will venture to speculate that this is how a prong, choke, or shock collar wearing dog perceives the appearance of the collar. They probably feel about the collar similarly to how I feel about the cold, they don't like it. Come on, who really does like having their airway restricted? Who likes an electric shock? Who likes being choked? Who likes frostbite? Things like not being able to breathe and having your phalanges fall off from the cold are, for the most part, probably safely considered as universal aversives which means that pretty much nobody likes them.
I'd also venture to guess that dogs enjoy sniffing, running around, walking, watching squirrels run, following bunny trails through the snow, rolling around in poop or dead things, checking "pee-mail," stretching their legs, interacting with other dogs if appropriate, seeing new sights, smelling new smells, as much as I enjoy my all-too-infrequent adventures into the woods with my family. If wearing the collar, or being out in the cold, is the only possible way the dog and I can obtain those potent, feel-good reinforcers for ourselves, then that's what it takes.
All that said, I still feel like the "Prong Collar Loving Dog" is an issue of concern not for dog trainers, but cryptozoologists, kind of like a "Cold-Loving Casey." Such creatures do not, in all probability, actually exist unless they inhabit a world of unicorns, Loch Ness monsters, sasquatches, and other fantasy creatures.
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Compared to how my dog
Compared to how my dog reacted when I was working her on a head collar or front clip harness, she loves the prong. When I pulled out the head collar or harness, her head and entire body would just droop and I'd have to go get her. When she hears the prong jingle as I take it off the rack, she comes flying over and sits perfectly in front of me so I can clip it on. Do I wish she preferred the head collar or front clip harness? Absolutely! But she likes the prong, therefore, I like the prong. But I always remember it's just a tool for us to use while we learn loose-leash walking on a flat collar.
I would like to especially
I would like to especially comment on the second paragraph by relaying a story. I had the owner of a 5 month old large breed puppy come to one of my classes - very sweet lady. Her dog was wearing a choke collar. I hate these collars, but didn't say anything to her at first. By the second week she asked me " is there anything else I can use to help with his pulling, this collar does nothing but choke him??" I let her try a front snap harness and she was so happy that not only did she buy one but she actually talked one of her classmates into buying one too. My point is, that if I had berated her for using the collar she might have become defensive or insulted or hurt and I would have totally lost the opportunity to educate her.
Thank you, Staci Lemke, RVT, CPDT-KA, Manners For Mutts Dog Training, www.mannersformutts.com
Prongs
I have used prong collars in the past (long past) and yes they can stop a dog from pulling. The reason the dog stops pulling is the pain that comes when he does. You may have stopped the pulling but you have not tought the dog anything. As Ian Dunbar says.
“Any punishment for inappropriate behavior is an advertisement that you have yet to effectively teach your dog how you would like him to act.” Ian Dunbar
Choke collar
I have a German Shepherd puppy who is 6 months old and 75 pounds (no, that is not a typo). I have been working with him on a leash with a woven slip collar/leash since he was about 9 weeks old. Mostly he does really great while we walk, but we have herds of deer in our neighborhood that are practically tame and trying to keep him under control sometimes is challenging. I recently switched to a choke collar (not prong) and it seems to help. I use treats to distract to get him past the deer, but sometimes I feel like I could plop a ribeye in front of him and it would not distract his focus from the herd of deer.
Would you recommend that I go back to the slip collar? He is going to quickly outweigh me (I'm 5'1" and 105 pounds) before he is fully trained.
Thanks, Casey Craig
http://www.caseycraig.com
No excuse for choke collar
I would suggest that you go back to the basics and get your pup under full control prior to subjecting him to the enticement of "friendly deer" in the neighborhood. That's a bit much for such a young dog to ignore.
Exposing a dog to such stimuli prior to being fully trained is probably the number one reason for failure of a given act. I would continue practicing his heel, recall, and loose leash walking until it is bullet proof and then slowly increase the distractions until he can handle such strong sirens as the local deer.
I am owned by a 71/2 month Rottweiler who weighs 98lbs. who has never been exposed to a choke, prong, shock, or other primitive and harmful devices, yet walks by my side off leash no matter the temptations that may arise on our strolls. There is no excuse for using, justifying or rationalizing such harmful devices, ever.
Good luck.
Re: No excuse
Dear Norske,
Thank you for your input. Maybe I did not state it clearly, but my neighborhood is rampant with deer. The houses are on acre lots, but there are deer everywhere. If I chose not to "subject him" then we can't leave the back yard. A walk confined to the yard, would not provide nearly enough exercise. Any walk along our neighborhood streets involves seeing at least one deer and more likely a whole herd. I do not try and approach them in fact I wish they would run off, but they are so used to humans that they just stand around.
I am willing to revert back to a nylon slip leash/collar and work with distracting him with treats, but deer are everywhere here in Wimberley and I don't have the luxury of not encountering them.
Thanks again,
Casey Craig
http://www.caseycraig.com
Casey, it was I who was not
Casey, it was I who was not clear enough as my comment was a duopoly which was unfairly directed at only you.
I have been amazed as of late at some of the rationalizations I have seen on this site in defense of harsh tools ie: prongs, choke, shock, etc.
My only choice is a flat collar and in making the dog want to walk by my side much more appealing than chasing deer or whatever, but using only R+ modalities.
That many deer must be a very appealing distraction to a 7 mo. old GSD. With my past GSD's and Rotts, as well as my current Rott pup I just slowly worked up to the distractions, not giving him a chance to fail.
We have plenty of deer in this area, but not nearly as much as you seem to have. We began with sheep, chickens, cats, etc. until he was solid in coming when called no matter how excited or stimulated he became. It didn't happen overnight though.
A couple of times a week we take long walks through a wide expanse of desert called The Carrizo Plains. Thor enjoys nothing more than chasing after jack rabbits to his hearts content. It is reassuring to know that once I call him back he stops mid chase and returns to my side.
Teaching Thor to stay close and practise recalls and healing off leash while a young pup ala D.r Dunbar worked wonders for control on and off leash.
When Thor is finished growing he will be approximately 125-130 lbs. or so. I could handle an out of control dog that size but my wife could not. Having that mental connection and control over the dog makes it just as easy to control him with a flat collar, a piece of yarn, or off leash.
Alternatives to a choke chain
Hi Casey - I can quite understand your concerns with needing to ensure the safety of a growing adolescent dog on his way to weighing more than you do! Have you considered a Halti or Gentle Leader, or a similar dog halter? They do need to be correctly fitted, but could help you through the training phase with fewer risks of injuury than the choke chain.
"loving" collars
I agree that the reactions dogs have when people pull out the apparrati for going for a walk is probably more about the anticipation of a walk than a true "love" of the tool.
So what? Dogs don't have to "love" tools. Many dogs seem to "hate" head halters, but people use them anyway, saying, "well, it's the best tool for her, so she has to put up with it." Why is this different with tools you as a trainer do not like?
If we decide that dogs are stressed, or in pain, or feeling happy based on observable behaviors, why is it wrong to say, "My dog is incredibly excited when I pull out his prong collar. He spins and leaps and trembles with excitement at the thought of a walk. He certainly doesn't act negatively about wearing it, and I'm using it correctly, so what's the harm?"
If it really was that bad a tool for some dogs, wouldn't their behavior get worse? And shouldn't it be the goal of every tool user to wean the dog off tools, for the most part?
The fact is that prong collars are quite effective in many cases. This is why people use them. When used correctly on the dogs who benefit from them, they help dogs learn, and they are one of the easiest tools to teach heeling, and then wean dogs off of.
So what if the dog loves it? Or acts like he does? Or loves the walk more, and the collar is just part of it, a part he puts up with? If it helps to teach the behaviors we want, quickly and effectively, what is the problem?
"My only choice is a flat collar and in making the dog want to walk by my side much more appealing than chasing deer or whatever, but using only R+ modalities."
That's great, and I'm glad it has worked for you. But unless you are going to train Casey's dog, you have no idea how hard it is or isn't for her/him to control the dog with everyday distractions.
It's easy for ideological trainers and people with easy dogs to say, "oh, just don't get him around those distractions until he's trained. There's your solution." But that's horribly unhelpful for people who are struggling, and it's quite unrealistic.
Even Ian Dunbar has said that "only R+ modalities" are limited when you need to proof behaviors.
"It didn't happen overnight though."
I'm sure it didn't. And I'm glad your method worked for you. But assuming it will work for all dogs in all circumstances is short-sighted.
I do not use choke chains because, of the two, pinch collars are far better teaching tools. They are also more humane, less resistant to improper use, and easier for clients to use and understand. They can work OK when bought off the shelf and put on a dog, but they work much better when fit correctly and used properly, with a light touch. There is no need to jerk or yank with a pinch collar. That's another reason they are so effective, and better than chokes.
(For dogs who do not need a training collar, a buckle collar is just fine. But I definitely don't want a dog pulling on one.)
Yeah, they look offensive. But dogs don't care about that. They want clear communication, structure, and a leader who is predictable, stable, and rewarding. One can be all three while using the correct tool for the job, and get the job done more quickly, which leaves more time for actually enjoying the dog.
I think it's fine if some trainers and dog owners don't want to use them. But please don't assume they are never ever a good tool. Many happy, well-trained dogs and their owners would disagree.
tools
I would second the suggestion of trying a head halter or a front clip harness, but I'd also like to ask how you are using the chain collar and what you mean by "seems to help." Choke chains are an extremely poor tool for teaching simple loose-leash walking. I don't like the tool period, but I used them years ago and they need to be used in a pretty precise manner.
Their "correct" use involves training a very solid heel for your dog. He needs to respond to the command well, which means holding heel position almost perfectly. When he breaks position, you give a quick sideways correction so that the pressure is on the side of the dog's neck. It should stop the pulling almost immediately. If that's not how it's going for you; if your dog is doing any signficant amount of straining on the collar or getting corrections that put the force of the chain on his throat, then you're approach is extremely unlikely to yield decent long-term results.
I want to be clear that I don't see any good reason to use chain collars even in the way that I described. There are far better and gentler ways to teach a heel, but if your dog is continuing to pull in any substantial way, then you're not using it in a way that even its proponents would support. A prong collar would be more humane and likely more effective, although a head halter or no-pull harness combined with some daily work in your backyard or other place where you're less likely to run into deer would be a much better option.
games first!
What helps me the most with fosters are the games we play in the name of building emotional self control on an interaction basis. I find that excelerates being mindful of us delicate humans when out on a "sensation overload" walk.
Control Unleashed is one of my favourite books for training games, Crate Games DVD and "For the Love of a Dog" to remind us humans that it's really not all about us, communication is a two way street.
As for Tools, I love gentle leaders (accupressure points to calm) and Sensation harneses. I have a back problem, one lunge and I feel like my back is going to break. I ease them into associating putting on the harness with all their favourite things( before dinner, before playing ball, before they come up on the couch..before we play tug...) before putting it on them to take them for a walk so that eases the transition.
happy-houndz.blogspot.com cheers, kate
"loving" collars
"DogRealist" I think you're missing the point of the post. Defenders of prong collars all too often say "but the dog LOVES his prong collar." If--as you seem to believe--the dog's feelings don't matter at all--it's unclear why anyone would say that in defense of these collars. But they do. And, for the people who say the dog loves the collar, they seem to think it justifies its use. The article is pointing out that the love these folks are ascribing to the prong collar is misplaced and that their rationalizing is bogus.
Yes, prong collars are very effective in inflicting pain on dogs when they pull. The tools you use are a choice over which a dog has no control (and apparently whose opinion you think is entirely irrelevant). You can choose to inflict pain or you can choose to train the dog. I opt for training.
The difference between head halters and prongs is that halters aren't designed to inflict pain. It's true that many dogs don't like head halter either--mine hated it even after I worked to introduce it slowly and build good associations. He was miserable. It made training harder because he was practicing avoidance rather than engaging in training (which is why I DO think it matters if the dog likes the tool, I want an engaged learning dog). So, I got rid of the head harness and used his flat buckle collar and double downed on my training starting in low distraction environments (and I lived in a city at the time, so no easy feat). I'm not a trainer, I have a busy job, and I have high drive herding breeds who are easily distracted by every kind of movement so definitely not "easy" dogs. I've never needed to use a prong collar, even when they're around sheep (or tennis balls).
For the person with the dog distracted by deer, a prong collar isn't going to help the dog learn to focus on the handler even if it does make walking easier for the handler. If the neighborhood is as overrun with deer as the post suggests, then the issue isn't just walks. IMO, it's shortsighted to just focus on using a prong collar to "solve" the pulling while on leash when really the focus should be on teaching the dog self-control even in the presence of deer (which can absolutely be done and I'd say should be done to keep the dog safe from darting out of the yard in taking off after a deer when not being stopped by the pain around his neck). A prong collar will not teach that, but a game of "Look at That" from Control Unleashed might.
choke collar update
Update. I have worked with an excellent trainer here in Wimberley (Joan Miller) since my dog was 3 months old, and she set me up with a halti while I was attending one of her classes a few weeks ago. At first Boo wasn't too thrilled and pawed at it and rolled on the ground, but with lots of treats and praise he got used to it. I now use it to walk him twice a day and it has made a tremendous difference. I truly feel that I can control him now and that is a wonderful thing. I don't even have to correct, he just self-corrects if he starts pulling. I look at this device as a TEMPORARY solution. As he matures, and his heeling becomes consistent despite distractions, I will work on walking him with just a flat collar, but that won't be for awhile.
This is the confusing part about dog training. Everyone has a different opinions formed from training different dogs. I've had dogs my whole life and each one has been very different. I will say that from my recent experience, I am very pleased with the halti for this dog and I would recommend it to anyone with a strong dog that pulls over a choke/prong collar.
Thanks to all who have chimed in with advice. I know it comes from a shared desire to do what is best for our pets.
Best Wishes,
Casey Craig
http://www.caseycraig.com